D&D 5E Is the Tarrasque tough enough?

[Tormyr]

As I said above, it should be acid. And the city itself would have huge stockpiles of them (less for acid than for alchemist fire, but there are industrial applications for it).

Sorry, I missed that. I would think there would be more acid available than alchemists fire, but that it might not be stockpiled as effectively. The joke still applies.

There is no difference between bludgeoning damage from falling or from weapons. Unless falling damage is its own damage type immunity would protect from it.

Now who is going away from what the rule book states? (Not that there is anything wrong with that within reason). The stat block only lists bludgeoning damage from weapons. Not bludgeoning damage in general. Specific beats general in the rules.

But that doesn't matter as the Tarrasque would be unlikely to throw anything anyway. First it is not in the rules and second it is very unlikely that the claws can grasp a creature or that the arms anatomy would allow it to throw something very far or with good accuracy, so there is no reason to give it this ability in the first place.
That completely ignores the anatomical differences between bipedal (human) and quadrupled (Tarrasque) creatures. The arms of the Tarrasque are not made for throwing things with accuracy. It would be surprised if the Tarrasque could even lift its arms above its head which is a requirement to throw something upwards or in a longer arc. So hitting something with a thrown object is very unlikely. And with all those uncertainties better stick to the rules which do not give the Tarrasque a throwing attack.

I don't find myself beholden to an artist's rendering. The Tarrasque in my mind is closer to Godzilla or a Gargantuan, deformed T-Rex. But looking at the artwork, the Tarrasque is not a quadruped. In the three pieces of artwork we are given, it never walks on 4 limbs, even when it is bent over. Even though it doesn't have the flexibility of a humanoid, it looks like it could at least throw straight outward. With its size and strength and height (the top picture), a long throw still applies. The top picture also shows the fingers curling around.

Have you ever seen a cat throwing a rock after a flying bird? Can you imagine a cat doing it (and hitting)? No? But it has appendages and as much hands as the Tarrasque has.

Yeah, you are right, that was a bad choice of word. I originally was going to say "hand" but though of including things with tentacles as well. So I chose appendages. Obviously a cat cannot pick anything up. But the artwork gives the Tarrasque much more hand to work with. It might not be great at throwing something, but losing its +9 proficiency bonus seems like a reasonable trade off.

 

[SilverfireSage]

As I said above, it should be acid. And the city itself would have huge stockpiles of them (less for acid than for alchemist fire, but there are industrial applications for it).
There is no difference between bludgeoning damage from falling or from weapons. Unless falling damage is its own damage type immunity would protect from it.
But that doesn't matter as the Tarrasque would be unlikely to throw anything anyway. First it is not in the rules and second it is very unlikely that the claws can grasp a creature or that the arms anatomy would allow it to throw something very far or with good accuracy, so there is no reason to give it this ability in the first place.
That completely ignores the anatomical differences between bipedal (human) and quadrupled (Tarrasque) creatures. The arms of the Tarrasque are not made for throwing things with accuracy. It would be surprised if the Tarrasque could even lift its arms above its head which is a requirement to throw something upwards or in a longer arc. So hitting something with a thrown object is very unlikely. And with all those uncertainties better stick to the rules which do not give the Tarrasque a throwing attack.

Have you ever seen a cat throwing a rock after a flying bird? Can you imagine a cat doing it (and hitting)? No? But it has appendages and as much hands as the Tarrasque has.

Disregarding that the writer Mike Mearls has stated that a tarrasque can throw a rock with as much efficiency as a giant (see above) it doesn't take much to see that a Tarrasque is much, much different from a cat. Do I really have to explain articulated digits (which the Tarrasque has) and pads like a cat? It also looks like the Tarrasque is actually bipedal like a T-Rex, as all of the pictures have it with its forward appendages off of the ground. It would stand to reason that the articulation that the Tarrasque has in its rotator cuff would be similar to that of any other bipedal creature with that body structure. In fact, I would liken the Tarrasque more to the posture of a gorilla than anything else, and those animals are very capable of throwing things, including in the actual rules under Giant Ape. And if you want to see an animal with a 3 intelligence throw something, look up an Elephant. They have been known to throw many things, mainly mud, at tourists and on themselves to cool down. All in all, I find this should indicate that a Tarrasque throwing a rock is not only possible, but likely, given an enemy out of reach.

 

[Tormyr]

Why would there be 2 others in the combat (btw. that is a silliy mechanic anyway)? Why wouldn't they form a triangle around it and attack it from all sides with longbows? Why wouldn't the archer move away from the Tarrasque when it comes closer?

Most parties will have at least 3 and usually more characters. It also allows the Tarrasque to use its full movement and the archer to kill the Tarrasque in less than 75 rounds (or whatever someone else calculated it to be). If there is only 1 archer facing off against the Tarrasque all on his lonesome with no soldiers or anyone else helping him, sure, limit the Tarrasque to 100' of movement. It will extend the chase a bit longer, but lunchtime will come.

If the archers form a triangle at 600', The Tarrasque will be outside the normal range of two of them in 1 turn of movement while bearing down on the third.

The archer was running. The archer starts at 600'. Because the archer with the feat needs to be within 600', he does not move until the Tarrasque starts moving toward it.
At round 3, the archer fires and moves 30' away. Sorry, I could have made that clearer. 140' of Tarrasque movement - 30' of archer movement means that the Tarrasque closes the gap by 110' from 460' to 350'. This 110' of closure continues until lunch time.

 

[KarinsDad]

Yeah, you are right, that was a bad choice of word. I originally was going to say "hand" but though of including things with tentacles as well. So I chose appendages. Obviously a cat cannot pick anything up. But the artwork gives the Tarrasque much more hand to work with. It might not be great at throwing something, but losing its +9 proficiency bonus seems like a reasonable trade off.

Enough of a claw that I would allow the Tarrasque to grab things. I think that the DM has to adjudicate many creatures with claws, especially intelligent ones, to be able to grapple and/or throw things. Course, intelligence also plays into this. I would not have a Tarrasque figure out to grab and throw a large rock at foes quickly. It would take quite a few rounds of being frustrated and not being able to do something to its foes. Maybe 4 or 5 rounds and maybe not even then. But, I would have a Dragon figure it out right away. Grab rock, drop it on PCs. I would not let a creature with animal intelligence (2 or lower) grab and throw if it was not accustomed to doing so.

I would only allow a cat (even a large one) to grab something (or even grapple) if it used two paws. I can see a different DM allowing the cat's claws on one paw to grab (i.e. catch into) clothing or whatever, but that would be a bit of a stretch for me. But a cat has animal intelligence and I wouldn't ever have it throw anything.

 

[Tormyr]

Enough of a claw that I would allow the Tarrasque to grab things. I think that the DM has to adjudicate many creatures with claws, especially intelligent ones, to be able to grapple and/or throw things. Course, intelligence also plays into this. I would not have a Tarrasque figure out to grab and throw a large rock at foes quickly. It would take quite a few rounds of being frustrated and not being able to do something to its foes. Maybe 4 or 5 rounds and maybe not even then. But, I would have a Dragon figure it out right away. Grab rock, drop it on PCs. I would not let a creature with animal intelligence (2 or lower) grab and throw if it was not accustomed to doing so.

I would only allow a cat (even a large one) to grab something (or even grapple) if it used two paws. I can see a different DM allowing the cat's claws on one paw to grab (i.e. catch into) clothing or whatever, but that would be a bit of a stretch for me. But a cat has animal intelligence and I wouldn't ever have it throw anything.

[MENTION=7175]jadrax[/MENTION] post about Mearls using rock rules from giants is probably a bunch simpler to use and makes sense.

While I would not see a cat using throwing as an attack, I have seen cats catch a rodent with their claws and fling it up into the air in one motion. Not sure that really adds anything to the conversation, but it sure was fascinating to watch the first time.

 

[chriton227]

It would be surprised if the Tarrasque could even lift its arms above its head which is a requirement to throw something upwards or in a longer arc.

There are many people who have played lawn darts, slow pitch softball, shot baskets "granny style", tossed hay bales into the back of trucks, juggled, etc. who would beg to differ that you have to lift your arms above your head to throw something upwards or in a long arc. In fact I find it easier to throw straight up underhand than overhand. And if the Tarrasque is just trying to pick something up and throw it away, accuracy really doesn't matter much, it's not like it would particularly care where the creature it throws lands, as long as it is "far away".

 

[Tormyr]

The reason that I keep coming up with counters to some of the strategies that people have come up with is to find things that would really work. I honestly cannot think of a single way to ensure victory over the Tarrasque short of a plot device. Any sort of cheese strategy seems to have a counter that someone else comes up with.
An army does not have enough magic weapons, and soldiers are going to die left and right, losing their DPR each round.
Same with a bunch of spellcasters and magic weapon (the spell).
Archers get chased down.
fliers eventually get hit by rocks and fall.
Things immune to weapon attacks get thrown away.

What we need are heroes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXYtJYBZwv0&list=PL588DABE573FDE708&index=61&t=326
Level 20 heroes decked out with magic stuff. But 1 by 1 they get eaten, and it is going to be very scary to see how the race to 0 hit points goes as the PCs unload their alpha strikes. When those run out, the Tarrasque continues its relentless assault. Each turn 1 PC is brought closer to 0 hp dangerously quickly. Where did we park Halaster, anyway?

Some combination of lots of minions, fliers, archers magic users, summoners, and others, led by a group of Heroic PCs is likely necessary. And even then, there will likely be death. Lots of it.

 

[Mistwell]

Big T is CR 30, but it seems to me to be easy meat for even mid-level archers, as long as they have magic arrows.

Consider a 11th level Dex 16 archer-style fighter with a +1 bow and +1 arrows. She attacks at +11 (+4 proficiency, +3 stat, +2 style, +2 weapons), hitting on a 14+ or 35% of the time, hitting for 8.5 damage (plus criticals). As long as she stays out of the way and doesn't run out of arrows she can keep plinking, getting an average of 1 hit a round. It will take ~75 rounds to down the beast but down it will go.

Bump the bow and arrows to +2 or bump the Dex to 20 and she hits on 12+ or 45% of the time. A 20th level Dex 20 archer with +3 bow and +3 arrows hits on a 6+ or 75% of the time. The latter archer will be hitting for 46.5 HP per round (plus criticals), so Big T will go down in ~15 rounds.

Not so tough really, is it?

How does he stay out of the way? The Tarrasque move is 40, and it can move twice in a turn, and then it also has as a legendary action (3 times per round, recharges every round) the ability to move. There is no way to keep out of it's way on the ground.

The only change I would make is to clarify that the tarrasque can throw rocks and such, much like any giant.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I think the whole tarrasque fracas that keeps coming up is a good example of a disconnect between the designers and some DMs on encounter building in 5e. I don't think the monster stat block is supposed to encapsulate everything about your combat encounter like it often did in 4e; the DM is expected to create a suitable context for everything. If you catch a tarrasque meandering through the wilderness, maybe flying overhead and dropping vials of acid on it for six hours would kill it; but in a real campaign there is probably a more complex task at hand, like a city to be protected.

 

[Mistwell]

A longbow has a huge range - 150 before you get disadvantage, and 600 if you take the feat. The Tarrasque only has a speed of 40. So the archer is utterly safe.

No, he's not. Tarrasque moves a minimum of 100' a round (dash, legendary action move). As you are using an action to fire, you can only move 30' a round. It will catch up to you well before you really hurt it.