Is this an Attack of Opportunity?

[Thanee]

Yes, but does reaching into my square with your hand provoke.

I don't think so. Moving into a square provokes. Reaching into a square is not covered, except with the specific actions, where it is included in the action.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

It is actually "touching UP TO six friends". Certainly 1 friend counts as part of "up to six friends" just as 2, 3, 4 and 5 friends count as "up to six friends". So if your friend is prone and unconcious, you would provoke from trying to touch him, no?

Yep, but if you use those rules for a single touch, you do not deserve better (that's like making a full attack with a single weapon and BAB +5 ). They are obviously only needed to touch multiple allies.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Artoomis]

I don't think so. Moving into a square provokes. Reaching into a square is not covered, except with the specific actions, where it is included in the action.

Bye
Thanee

Well, good point - let's compare it to, say, taking something form a person (Disarm). That provokes.

Generally, I think that reaching into the opponent's square doing anything other than some form of an attack (and even some of those) provokes. This seems to fall into that general rule.

It also seems to fit the general description of why you get an AoO.

It's a DM judgement call, but i'm leaning towards saying an AoO is provoked.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well, good point - let's compare it to, say, taking something form a person (Disarm).

No, let's compare it to making a touch attack with a spell on another person... since that's essentially what you're doing.

Which brings us back to cat and ogre.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

No, let's compare it to making a touch attack with a spell on another person... since that's essentially what you're doing.

Which brings us back to cat and ogre.

-Hyp.

That's a bad comparision (touch attack with a spell on another person) because:

A. Youre NOT doing a touch "attack" and
B. You are doing in an opponent's square.

I think this is a situation not contemplated in the rules. I think that, for at least these particular limited circumstances, I lean towards saying an AoO is provoked.

I think if you are attacking with what would normally not provoke an AoO it's quite a bit different. So if TWO opponents occupied the same square and you attacked one, I do not think you'd draw an AoO from the other.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A. Youre NOT doing a touch "attack".

I'm using a touch spell in combat.

B. You are doing in an opponent's square.

Just like casting Inflict Light Wounds on the ogre's cat.

I think if you are attacking with what would normally not provoke an AoO it's quite a bit different.

Touching a single friend with Cure Light Wounds as part of a Cast a Spell standard action does not normally provoke an AoO.

So if TWO opponents occupied the same square and you attacked one, I do not think you'd draw an AoO from the other.

How is it different that the person I am touching with a touch spell in the ogre's square is my buddy the rogue instead of a hostile cat?

-Hyp.

 

[Telas]

I'm using a touch spell in combat.

No, you're not. You're reaching down in a square occupied by an opponent to touch something; roughly the same action as if you were picking something up. The spell was cast outside of combat.

Just like casting Inflict Light Wounds on the ogre's cat.

No, that's an attack, with a chance of failure. By that basis, standing over the body of the cleric's friend has no benefit to the defender; I could keep him from getting healed just as easily from an adjacent square, and it would require a Readied Action.

Touching a single friend with Cure Light Wounds as part of a Cast a Spell standard action does not normally provoke an AoO.

Because normally, you're not as exposed as you would be if his body were under your opponent's feet.

How is it different that the person I am touching with a touch spell in the ogre's square is my buddy the rogue instead of a hostile cat?
-Hyp.

Hopefully, you'll get some cover from your friend... The Ogre analogy breaks down at some point because of his reach, and the attack analogy breaks down because a heal spell isn't a weapon. You don't get AoO'd with a touch attack into an opponent's square because he doesn't want you to touch him.

Like I said, there will be different opinions on this, since you can start covering the grey area from different starting points. I can respect your approach to this situation, but I know what I'd do in my game.

Telas

 

[Thanee]

No, you're not. You're reaching down in a square occupied by an opponent to touch something; roughly the same action as if you were picking something up.

And next week... why monks should not hit prone opponents with their fists.

No, that's an attack, with a chance of failure.

Which is why I think you should make an attack roll in order to 'avoid' the AoO.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Telas]

And next week... why monks should not hit prone opponents with their fists.

...because that's what feet are for...



Seriously, thanks to everyone who posted/will post to this thread. I got a lot of information, and have a good idea on how I'd handle it. I really appreciate the fact that it didn't devolve into a flamewar, despite opposing opinions.

Telas (who'd rather kick a man when he's down - you don't have to stretch so far)

 

[Hypersmurf]

No, you're not. You're reaching down in a square occupied by an opponent to touch something; roughly the same action as if you were picking something up. The spell was cast outside of combat.

Still falls under the definition of Touch Spells in Combat.

From the PHB:
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Automatically touching one friend is an example of a touch spell in combat, as is cast-move-touch.

No, that's an attack, with a chance of failure. By that basis, standing over the body of the cleric's friend has no benefit to the defender; I could keep him from getting healed just as easily from an adjacent square, and it would require a Readied Action.

Depends on the adjacent square, of course. If the cleric circles to the opposite side, your readied action wouldn't reach if you'd moved at all in the round. (If you hadn't moved, your readied action can niclude a 5' step.)

If you're in the friend's square, no 5' step is required.

Because normally, you're not as exposed as you would be if his body were under your opponent's feet.

So can the monk punch the cat without drawing an AoO?

You don't get AoO'd with a touch attack into an opponent's square because he doesn't want you to touch him.

So you'd suggest an ogre would get an AoO, but a wight wouldn't, since the wight doesn't want the CLW to touch him?

-Hyp.