Is this legal?

[Warbringer]

Just thought I'd point out that the pics linked to from the SS SRD are lnks to the WoTC page, so they're totally kosher.

Yup, I'm wrong. I should have paid attention to the fact that the image is right where it belongs on the wizards site.

Move along, nothing to see here...

 

[Altalazar]

Maybe you could, but the consensus of the OGL publishing community is that the OGL begins under the header "Open Game License", not some arbitrary number of paragraphs beforehand.

Getting back the matter at hand...you might be able to include an OGC (not d20) XP calculator if you can find an OGC source with an OGC XP table. Conan, Thieves World, and the Black Company are the only three I can think of off hand, but there are more. I don't know what Mongoose's Pocket Player Handbook includes, but that's another possibility.

Cheers
Nell.

That is certainly evidence in the other direction, but again, if you are dealing with some guy in his basement putting up a web page and making a good faith effort to include the OGL as it is required, then you just aren't going to win in court on that. Where's the damage? It is not a breach of any significance, if it is a breach at all, of the OGL. And non-material breach isn't usually a big deal. But as I said, there is a very convincing argument that it isn't really a breach. And there is a probably unassailable argument that there was no intention to breach - in fact, this looks like perhaps, at worst, an overzealous attempt to comply with the license.

 

[ThirdWizard]

The first thing to learn is not to try to "out clever" the licenses. It isn't worth the effort.

Tell that to Monte Cook.

 

[Gilwen]

I think he's ok if he includes the xp calculator but he cannot describe how to apply that experience.

I have to agree that his legal page is in violation of the license since he is effective declaring all of the stuff in the list PI and declaring WOTC OGC, he can't do that only the owner of that PI and OGC can. If he didn't use the d20 logo he could create his own process of applying experience. Is it a game breaker? Probably not but he should still remove everything before the heading OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a

He also doesn't, aleast I couldn't find it, declare what is OGC and PI, the OGL says you have to define what is OGC and PI.

On his home page his is declaring compatibity with Dungeon's and Dragons in a way not approved by the d20 STL (first paragraph before the Legal Disclaimer). He also declares compatibility with other WOTC games which he cannot do unless he has permission from WOTC.

I am not a lawyer and this is my opinion only.

BTW I do love the site and use it regulary in my games, and so do my players.

gil

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

When it comes down to a "What is Legal" Question.

1. Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro is a big cpmpany. They have the resources to hire/have on staff VERY good lawyers. These lawyers get paid very well to know what will and will not be upheld in a court of law. So it seems that when Wizards say "It works this way" They probablly know what they are talking about.

2. Even if it's possible that the OGL is on quasi-legal footing, you'd have to fight it. You'd have to take on Hasbro's Legal Team, present an arguement before how many judges. Even if one judge agrees with you, Hasbro can take it to a higher court to appeal. This entire time you are racking up massive legal fees. And if you are successful, Hasbro just drops the OGL as an ineffective experiment & your mealticket just ended. Plus, all those industries looking at OGL as an business experiment, call it a failure & teh Open Gaming period ends.

Ultimatly, attempts to violate/challenge the OGl is taking on a 800 lb gorilla. If you are a mite (fan website) you escape his notice. If you are a rat big enough for him to notice the bite (any d20 company), you get smashed flat.

I'm no lawyer. but I know WotC has a lot of them they run things by. So, I'll just go out on a limb and say the WotC lawyers knew what they were doing when they put together/ok'd the D20 & OGL systems.

Just guessing.

 

[The_Magician]

One of the suggestions for my site (link below) has been to include a (java script) XP calculator.

So this is to all you legal geniuses out there. Would such a thing be legal seing as the XP tables are not OGC? Note that the amount experience required to reach a level would not be there.

I appreciate your help.

It's only a crime if you get caught.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I'm not sure of the answers and didn't look at the site in question. (have Sig's turned off, since too many 5" long irritating sigs on ENWorld.)

That said:
1) aren't electronic products (like a calculator) specified differently in the D20 License?

2) Fan site's also fall under a different policy, don't they? (A policy which I'm not sure WotC still has around, so maybe it's gone now.)

Just wondering

 

[Vrecknidj]

How about a ZP calculator instead of an XP calculator? Make up some term, call it "ZP" and then have the calculator generate some number. That number is NOT the same as what the XP would be, but it's some factor or multiple of it. No clues are given about how to get XP from ZP, nor is any mention made of what ZP might be for. The user has to figure it out on his own. (Oh, and it probably wouldn't be good if the formula were ZP = XP * 1.)

Probably not legal, but, it's an option.

Dave

 

[Breakdaddy]

... And there is a probably unassailable argument that there was no intention to breach - in fact, this looks like perhaps, at worst, an overzealous attempt to comply with the license.

And everyone knows that intent matters more than anything else in a court of law...

DEFENDANT: But, your honor, I didnt INTEND to download that MP3, it was an accident!
JUDGE: Oh, well, then! CASE DISMISSED SIR!!!

:ROLLEYES:

 

[ThirdWizard]

2) Fan site's also fall under a different policy, don't they? (A policy which I'm not sure WotC still has around, so maybe it's gone now.)

The site is under the OGL policy, not the fansite policy, but yes, fansites have a lot of leeway. I can't remember the quote, but in the d20 NPCWiki thread, there was talk about it. Suffice to say fansites can get away with a lot.