Is this legal?

[Sage]

I haven't studied it, but in the first place I highly doubt there's a smooth mathematical formula to the table, and in the second place, you very specifically don't want to do anything that deliberately "copies" that table. If you find yourself referring to that table at all, in fact, you have crossed the line.

I see your point, but in your system. If a lone level 1 PC crits a gnoll (CR2) he recieve 1200 XP! instant level up. It's good for equal challenges, but gets off track (at least at low levels). And if a 13th level character defeats a CR 14 monster he recieves 300 XP :s
are you sure you haven't forgotten something?

I noticed the DMG table sligtly follows this formula: (300*Monster CR)*(Monster CR/PC Level)
= 300*CR^2/PC Level (levels 1-3 = level 2)
notice that a 1st level character defeating a gnoll recives 600 XP and a 14 level character defeating a CR 14 monster receives 4200 XP. Why did you use the square of the PC level?

I understand if you don't want to discuss this and of so, I'll figure it out myself.

 

[Sage]

Knock it off, Mark. A side note would have been enough.

 

[Mark CMG]

Yup. I'll just leave this for others to deal with rather than try to help, as I probably should have in the first place. Good luck with things.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I see your point, but in your system. If a lone level 1 PC crits a gnoll (CR2) he recieve 1200 XP! instant level up.

That's correct. A single CR2 creature is four times as powerful as a 1st level character.

Put it in perspective: A "moderate" challenge for a group of FOUR 1st level PCs is a SINGLE CR1 creature.

A "moderate" encounter should expend about 25% of the party resources. That could mean that all 4 characters lose 25% of their hit points, spells, and other expendables; it could also mean that 1 character out of 4 (25%) dies flat out and everyone else is fine.

Divide the party power by four (solo character) and then double the challenge rating of the monster (CR2) and you have a very, very difficult challenge. No DM should be throwing a single CR2 creature against a single CR1 character.

He should expect that PC to die, which is reason enough not to do it. Of course, another reason not to do it is if afterwards you're going to balk at giving a PC commensurate reward to his risk.

But, I mean, you can take the "What if a solo PC crits monster XYZ..." down some ridiculous paths.

For the record, a gnoll is CR1-- or so says the Sovelior/Sage SRD.

And if a 13th level character defeats a CR 14 monster he recieves 300 XP :s
are you sure you haven't forgotten something?

(300)(196)/(169) = 348.

Remember that this is the award per character level.

So multiply 348x13 and the Chi/Rho award is 4524 XP.

By the way, if you want to award individual XP, multiply the per-level award by each character's level.

If you want to award party XP (as the DMG recommends) then you multiply the per level award by the total party levels, and then divide the total award equally among all party members.

Character Level (CL) 13 vs. CR14, by the DMG, pays 5850.

EDIT: I just want to edit this example to show you what happens when you have FOUR 13th level characters.

Now the formula is (300)(196)/(169+169+169+169)= 87 XP per character level.

Each character earns (13)(87) = 1131.

The total XP award is (1131)x(4 characters)= 4524.

See how the four characters still earn the same total XP from the same monster as the solo character did?

Why did you use the square of the PC level?

It's complicated, but the gist of it is that the square of the respective CRs is a more accurate representation of the way that "power" scales as CR (and CL) and numbers of combatants increase.

You could search the House Rules forum for lots of discussion!

Otherwise send me your email address and I will send you a short "treatise."


Wulf

 

[Sage]

But, I mean, you can take the "What if a solo PC crits monster XYZ..." down some ridiculous paths.

I see you point.

For the record, a gnoll is CR1-- or so says the Sovelior/Sage SRD.

lol

Remember that this is the award per character level.

Ah, had forgotten about this one.

It's complicated, but the gist of it is that the square of the respective CRs is a more accurate representation of the way that "power" scales as CR (and CL) and numbers of combatants increase.

parabolic (b*x^2) as opposed to linear, right?

Otherwise send me your email address and I will send you a short "treatise."

JJayJay@gmail.com

 

[Altalazar]

Thanks for the excellent posts Wulf - that was very helpful. Especially since you addressed the main issue and did not get sidetracked on what is, at worst, a trivial irregularity on the legal page.

 

[jgbrowning]

Thanks for the excellent posts Wulf - that was very helpful. Especially since you addressed the main issue and did not get sidetracked on what is, at worst, a trivial irregularity on the legal page.

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/classes.html

The top of this is copied from the Player's Handbook and does not appear in the SRD.


joe b.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Thanks for the excellent posts Wulf - that was very helpful. Especially since you addressed the main issue and did not get sidetracked on what is, at worst, a trivial irregularity on the legal page.

Well, thanks, but in Mark's defense, it's not trivial-- and as I said in my first post, Sage needs to pay attention to those previous comments as well.

You should not be copying (or even referencing) ANYTHING from any WOTC hardcopy book-- no tables, no charts, no text, etc. and I think I've been consistent about not trivializing that-- while at the same time answering the question asked.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

parabolic (b*x^2) as opposed to linear, right?

That's right.

Upper_Krust in particular noticed it first because he's working on a lot of Epic stuff. When you're dealing with PCs in the high-100th levels, you begin to notice that the power differential between a 100th level PC and a CR102 monster is not the same as the power differential between a 1st level PC and a CR3 monster.

The proper scaling of CR/EL is parabolic, not linear, as the DMG would indicate. The DMG views a CR20 creature as an equal threat to an 18th level party as a CR3 creature is to a 1st level party (difference of +2 CR). This is demonstrably not true as you may have noticed if you've done any high-level play. A single CR20 creature is pretty handily mopped up by four 18th level PCs, whereas conversely the 1st level party is pretty heavily threatened by the CR3 monster.

 

[Sage]

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/classes.html

The top of this is copied from the Player's Handbook and does not appear in the SRD.

Thanks, I'll remove it.

Upper_Krust in particular noticed it first because he's working on a lot of Epic stuff. When you're dealing with PCs in the high-100th levels, you begin to notice that the power differential between a 100th level PC and a CR102 monster is not the same as the power differential between a 1st level PC and a CR3 monster.

Yeah, the stuff he's done is pretty neat, I've seen some of it on the 100th level adventure thread.

I haven't run much high-level stuff, so I haven't thought about it much, but I think most DMs have it in the back of their head anyway