Is World of Warcraft creating a desire for more role-playing in D&D?

[Clavis]

Three of my current players are also World of Warcraft players (the other 3 are not). One of them recently asked me if I minded bringing another person into the group. The potential new player is a longstanding acquaintance of all of us, but I was concerned because our gaming style is role-play heavy, and the potential new player is a known powergamer. When I expressed my concern, I was told "don't worry, he already plays World of Warcraft, and gets all that hack n' slack stuff out of him. He just wants to hang out with us." That has really got me wondering. Is World of Warcraft, rather than creating a desire for more powers and goodies in D&D, actually already fulfilling players' powergaming needs? Rather than trying to duplicate World of Warcraft at the gaming table, would the hobby grow more if it provided exactly what World of Warcraft cannot provide - face to face roleplaying, social interaction, and an evolving, responsive setting where the players' PC are the protagonists?


So, what do you think? Is World of Warcraft actually good for roleplaying in D&D? Are the 4th edition designers making a HUGE mistake in not making D&D simpler and more role-playing focused, rather than trying to compete with WoW at the things WoW does better? I know Ryan Dancy has already written at length about how "role-playing games" need to become "storytelling games". Has anybody else had the experience of World of Warcraft players being more interested in role-playing while they're playing D&D?

 

[FadedC]

Well it looks like they are trying to simplify things, it's just that they are aiming for more complicated characters but simplers special abilities and combats. That would seem to promote the RPG as a storytelling game a great deal. You want your character to be complicated, because it's your embodyment in the game world. But when high level fights take 4 hours to finish you don't get much roleplaying in.

People do want fun combats and to feel like their character is contributing in any style of game though, so keeping up with evolving game rules and play balance is always important.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Are the 4th edition designers making a HUGE mistake in not making D&D simpler and more role-playing focused, rather than trying to compete with WoW at the things WoW does better?

Given that they're beefing up the social systems in D&D, which don't even exist in WoW, your thesis doesn't make sense to me.

 

[JustinM]

My group all plays WoW. We all tend to be powergamers (or try to be, in a couple cases) when building characters, but I seem to be the only one who has trouble leaving that part of my personality behind when the actual game starts. They're definitely far more biased toward the "storytelling game" than I am. It kind of makes me wonder why they spend all the time to look for all the cool feats and character options if they don't care if they never use them. But hey, that's just me.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Interesting idea.

 

[Clavis]

Given that they're beefing up the social systems in D&D, which don't even exist in WoW, your thesis doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not sure that a combat-like social "system", where NPC interactions are handled by die rolls, is the right way to go for a tabletop RPG. I'm wondering what percentage of players actually want to have more NPC encounters, and completely role-play them out without die rolling. I'm also wondering if that desire is related to playing WoW and already getting a "fix" of combat and combat-like encounters.

Also, I'm wondering the extent to which D&D is a formal game, and the extent to which "playing D&D" is a name given to a certain kind of social gathering. In my experience, for example, female players (some of whom also play WoW) are particularly prone to regard "playing D&D" as a chance to get together with friends, snack, and have fun pretending to be an elf, and barely seem to care about the mechanical capabilities of their characters at all. Does the future of D&D lie in promoting that aspect of the hobby?

 

[WyzardWhately]

I think my entire D&D group plays WoW, excepting myself. A lot of them play with each other. They seem pretty willing to go several sessions at once without combat, but I don't think the plural of anecdote is 'data.' You might be on to something, but the burden of proof would be difficult to carry.

I think it would act more as an incentive system. People who just really, really enjoy the combat are more likely to get pulled into WoW and never leave. People who desire other things from their simulated-fantasy-worlds will tend more to resist Azeroth's immense gravitational pull. Eventually, the populations more or less self-select. There will always be crossover.

 

[WyzardWhately]

I'm not sure that a combat-like social "system", where NPC interactions are handled by die rolls, is the right way to go for a tabletop RPG. I'm wondering what percentage of players actually want to have more NPC encounters, and completely role-play them out without die rolling. I'm also wondering if that desire is related to playing WoW and already getting a "fix" of combat and combat-like encounters.

Also, I'm wondering the extent to which D&D is a formal game, and the extent to which "playing D&D" is a name given to a certain kind of social gathering. In my experience, for example, female players (some of whom also play WoW) are particularly prone to regard "playing D&D" as a chance to get together with friends, snack, and have fun pretending to be an elf, and barely seem to care about the mechanical capabilities of their characters at all. Does the future of D&D lie in promoting that aspect of the hobby?

I love social encounters. However, I like to have the mechanical 'back-up' of a system for them. If we can just negotiate things out, fine. But if there's real conflict between characters, I like to have a way of resolving it other than by fiat.

 

[Drammattex]

I play computer games and D&D Miniatures to whack stuff.

I play RPGs to play a dramatic character in an action-oriented world.

The way that 4e is being simplified, the more opportunity I see for role-playing instead of flipping through rulebooks looking for rules, modifiers, etc.

IMO, the ultimate RPG experience would run like a season of Battlestar Galactica, where the drama is poignant and character-based, the story is suspenseful and action-oriented, and the entire thing has a definite story arc, divided up amongst several "adventures."

 

[Hussar]

So, what do you think? Is World of Warcraft actually good for roleplaying in D&D? Are the 4th edition designers making a HUGE mistake in not making D&D simpler and more role-playing focused, rather than trying to compete with WoW at the things WoW does better? I know Ryan Dancy has already written at length about how "role-playing games" need to become "storytelling games". Has anybody else had the experience of World of Warcraft players being more interested in role-playing while they're playing D&D?

How does simpler equate with more role play focused? Checkers is simple. Not a whole lot of role play. Vampire is a lot of things, but, simple isn't one of them. Yet, it's constantly toted as the "Role players" game of choice. Heck, GURPS is one of the most complex games out there, yet, I never hear people talking about how it's all about the hack and no role play. Quite the opposite in fact.

However, that aside, why do you think that 4e is going to be more complex than 3e when one of the stated goals is to make it less complex?