Isle of the Ape - your experiences?

[Bregh]

Au contraire (or some similar spelling). I have the highest love for the old D&D rules and adventures. But I can also spot poor design through my rose-colored glasses.

"Actually"? Did I say something to the contrary? "LG"? Was no Living Greyhawk back then. Was just EGG's/RK's campaign world back then. Were you explaining this to me? Unnecessary. Or are you just offering it up as info? Sorry I took it personally.

Rose coloured glasses, indeed. Of course, implying that I do wear them. Bugger it, we'll let all that nonsense go to avoid the flame war that would certainly result.

The "actually" is in direct response to your statement that the module was "built" to punish players, with implication that that was its sole purpose. I offered the opinion that that was not the case.

LG, by the way, is in reference to Lake Geneva.

And, naturally, there was at least one other D&D campaign in those early days, that being Dave Arneson's Blackmoor in the Twin Cities.

 

[Quasqueton]

Rose coloured glasses, indeed. Of course, implying that I do wear them. Bugger it, we'll let all that nonsense go to avoid the flame war that would certainly result.

Thank you for letting the nonsense go, as I didn't mean it the way you took it. I was not suggesting *you* specifically were wearing the red glasses, but rather that we all do (myself included) when looking back on cherished parts of our past. <debates whether this too will be taken as a veiled insult. hopes it want be.>

LG = Lake Geneva. Oops. Of course. <red faced>

And, naturally, there was at least one other D&D campaign in those early days, that being Dave Arneson's Blackmoor in the Twin Cities.

Yes, I know. But what does that campaign have to do with this module discussion?

Quasqueton

 

[talien]

I ran this as a DM and thought it was hysterical. It's basically "go fight King Kong."

The characters I played with were sufficiently powerful to survive it, however. I can't remember particularly well how they did (that game was over a decade ago), but I do recall someone getting pulverized with one hit from Oogna.

Nobody seemed to have blinked at the high stats or monsters out to kill them. Back then, you pretty much assumed everything was out to kill you. Which is why they listed each monster's Hit Points.

 

[BSF]

I always took Isle of the Ape to be geared toward punishing characters. Not in the sense of administering discipline or "getting back" at them. More in the tone of emphasizing that that PCs are going to undergo some brutal experiences and if they aren't careful/prudent, they will have their butts handed to them on a platter.

I would argue that the module design is questionable. It does strip away a lot of the problematic magics and reduces the party to scrounging for any scrap of success. Not that this is a bad thing, but the particular method of achieving it is heavy-handed. That being said, I always liked the module. I never ran a party through it because I didn't think any of my friends would enjoy it. Or survive it.

Let me emphasize for those who have never read it.

This is a brutal module.
Your PCs will likely lose almost all their cool toys. They will fight to keep their health. They will struggle to keep their spellcasters viable. They will face dang tough challenges that could put them into TPK land in a hurry. They will have to creatively address every situation to maximize their ability to win while minimizing their loss of resources. That means using the absolute least number of spells, losing the least number of HP, being able to feed themselves, etc.

This module really emphasized the value of attrition for me. I have used attrition on a smaller scale. But I have yet to find the really magical group of players that could take on the Isle of the Ape with any hope of success. One day, I hope to.

 

[Bregh]

<debates whether this too will be taken as a veiled insult. hopes it want be.>

No, not at all. You've clarified your position, and I apologise for jumping the gun, so to speak. It's all copacetic.

As to particulars...

I've used this module twice, both times stripping out the quest for the Crook of Rao and the meeting with Tenser. Initially, the Player Characters found a map along with a bit of a journal that gave mad ravings of "Oonga" a brutish god on some far distant tropical island (lifted completely and without apologly from the premise in the original King Kong--one of my favourite movies of all time). Using the map as a guide, the Players set out to find and explore the island (they were enticed by the journal's mention of the brute-god's fabulous treasure).

This party was lower in level than the recommended 15-18th given in the module text (they were to 10-12th) but they were many in number, being 7 PCs and 5 henchmen, with attendant hirelings and the sort. (All told, I think 50 in all set out on the expedition, including the ship's crew.)

The battle with the native tribe on the penninsula was nothing short of a blood-bath. The party prevailed in due course, but almost all of their hirelings and men-at-arms were slain. (No PCs or henchmen lost.) Unfortunately, they killed the Big Witch Doctor and never divined the secrets of the stone pillar. Bringing ashore the ship's crew and the few remaining hirelings left aboard, the party established a base in the Kawibusa's village and from there proceeded to explore the island.

Over the course of two month's game time they made numerous forays inland, battling dinosaurs and happening on some of the weird sites and locales established there by "forgotten" powers. They made friends with one of the native tribes, but violated some taboos of the other, which led to animosity and skirmishes, which led to the tribe eventually attacking the party at their base camp en masse and forcing a retreat from the island. Prior to all of this they had one brief encounter with Oonga, which they fled after he handed them their butts on a tray, as it were. (Two PCs were killed--but brought back--and one henchman was killed and vanished into the jungle clutched in Oonga's mighty paw.) Two of the other gigantic apes native to the island were killed, as well as a slew of dinos and other terrible creatures.) After their retreat the party returned to more familiar locales, and eventually went into semi-retirement (current status, though some Players have intimated they'd like to revist the place).

The second time I ran this module I used it much as EGG might have--a pocket dimension off a main dungeon (which also included a portal to Yuggoth, and one to our modern-day hometown). The party that entered was similar in level to the one described above, and about the same size, but without the hireling contingent. They took a much more commando-approach to the whole affair, made heavily use of invisibilty and illusions to get by the Kawibusas and tramped around for awhile before making friendly with plateau-dwelling natives (after they realised they were stuck here). After proving their worth by leading a few skirmishes against the Kawibusas, the Shaman gave them some indication that the cave of Mighty Oonga might hold the answer to getting them "home". The party obtained the second part of the ritual from the cave-dwelling natives after helping them recover a totem stolen by a band of Kawibusas, but they soon fell afoul of a large force of Kawibusas, and most of them were slain. The three remaining PCs decided to forgo the affair ("for now", at the time) and decided to stay with the plateau-dwellers and become part of that tribe. (We started a new party and gaming went on. We never got back to those three, but as one was a magic-user, I'm thinking the plateau-dwellers are destined for great things in the future... . )

Anyway, great, great fun, but definately needs to be treated as a setting-module rather than an event one (as with the D-series modules). Players and DMs seeking to hack their way from one end of it to the other in a linear quest fashion aren't going to like it, I should think, but with the right spirit and a more long-term approach, I think it would add a great deal to any campaign. Issues vis design approach and the handling of certain spells are best regarded as matters of personal taste--it won't be everyone's cup of tea, certainly, but in the context of a truly isolated "lost world", neither I nor my Players had any problem with it. (Should note that Zagyg isn't a part of my campaign, but the weird sites spotted about the isle and the magic interference were held to be the result of heretofore unknown powers long forgotten by the natives of the place and the rest of the world at large, as well.)

 

[Quasqueton]

First off, thanks for the game experience.

Now,

Too many players are marching around claiming that they have chraracters able to handle anything. Now is the time to let them demonstrate the mettle of these invicible characters they have.

I took this to mean punishment. <shrug> Interpretations vary.

Actually, their ACs are completely in line with the Dexterity bonuses to ACs that accrued to Barbarians (which these NPCs are) as given in The Dragon and the official rules of the original Unearthed Arcana.

If they're barbarians, EGG hid that info really well in the text.

Anyway, I see this module as just arbitrarily difficult.

Quasqueton

 

[T. Foster]

I started this module twice but never finished it. The first time was right after it was released an ad-hoc with gross high-level characters made up deliberately for use in the module (and of course taking huge advantage of the just-released Unearthed Arcana rules -- high-level cavalier-paladins, barbarians, hierophant druids, etc.). The second time was several years later as an "out of retirement" romp for some favorite old characters (who weren't high enough for the by-the-book recommendations; they averaged maybe 12th level). Both times started out with great enthusiasm but got so bogged down in that huge battle at the beginning with the villagers that we all got bored and lost interest and never bothered to continue -- neither party ever met the great Kong, errr, "Oonga."

Sacriligious as this will probably sound (to those who know me), I don't really like this adventure very much, despite it being the last official D&D module from "The Master," E. Gary Gygax. The 'framing device' -- the introduction with Tenser (including a multi-page block of boxed text to be read aloud) and the deus ex machina finale -- strike me as incredibly lame and cheesy, and I'd almost guarantee were tacked on at the last minute in an ill-conceived attempt to 'compete' with the 'story-driven' Dragonlance modules that were all the rage at that time (late 1985); the module itself is really nothing but one giant hack 'n' slash attrition-fest -- role-playing and problem-solving (other than strict resource-management and combat tactics) are almost entirely absent; and last but not least the central "joke" of the module is played too straight -- to the extent that I didn't "get it" until several years later when I finally saw the original movie. I suppose it had to be this way (because, unlike Lewis Carrol's Wonderland, King Kong is still protected by copyright), but it still gives the module as a whole a "queer pitch" to me -- knowing that it's fundamentally a joke/goof, but pretending it's not. I think I'd like it better in it's original context (as a a sub-level of Greyhawk Castle reached by going down a corridor labeled "monkeying around").

 

[A'koss]

Ahh... Isle of the Ape.

That brings back memories. I used to love DMing it, but hated having to play through it.

Remember, for a long time, Isle of the Ape was the highest level AD&D module you could play. So if it's somewhat brutal, it's more than likely because it is a career-caping adventure before retiring those PCs. Is it a touch much? Probably a little, but this was virgin territory in adventure design so you expect a few foibles...

Cheers!

 

[David Howery]

I vaguely remember running through it waaaay back in 1E days. IIRC, our PCs got nailed badly by the huge numbers of natives (and their giant friggin' apes), but after the mages got some spells off, we kicked butt. We wandered around the island looking for a way out, praying the whole time that we wouldn't run into 'Kong'. We didn't, we did find the Crook of Rao, and we did escape.
Years later, as a DM, I ran it as a DM for a 2E group. THey succesfully completed the adventure... only to fall for the stupid "I am a holy paladin, gimme the Crook" scam at the end of it. I later ran a sequel adventure to it so they could recover the Crook and stop feeling so idiotic...

 

[Bregh]

If they're barbarians, EGG hid that info really well in the text.

Quasqueton

pg. 9, under "Description of the Kawibusas"

These barbarian tribesmen...

pg. 11, in the side bar for unit forces description

...All the warriors belong to the barbarian character class with large hide shields and the following tertiary skills: Animal Handling, Running, Sound Imitating and Snare Building.

And stats for AC, Level, HP, Combat, and Saving Throw Bonuses that are perfectly synchronous with that class as presented in the UA.

<shrug>

Looks pretty plain to me.