Jon Peterson posts Mordenkainen in 1974

Look at those stats, talk about a munchkin!

 

[Sacrosanct]

As I've heard it, in the very early days, Gary and his friends mostly played wizards and had henchmen and hirelings to do the fighting. Being able to keep those henchmen and hirelings loyal was important. This style of play quickly disappeared as the game went into broader release and people formed larger parties of player characters. At that point charisma became the dump stat, but if you look at AD&D, you can still see the rules around henchmen and hirelings that was a relic of an earlier style of play.

Hiring retainers was a big deal back then. Pretty much every early module also stressed or at least made mention about how they were important. In a game where a kobold could kill a PC with one hit, having retainers was pretty crucial. So CHA was only a dump stat for those who didn't want to live long

 

[mach1.9pants]

You're joking, right? Charisma was the original dump stat...

No way - in OD&D, or playing AD&D and Classic/Basic D&D in the original way, Charisma was the god stat. Dump the rest, really the worst you may get is a minus 1 in OD&D. Not that you could dump stats in 3d6 in order, reduce some by 2 (min 9) to add 1 to other specific stats. But low charisma means no (or worse, disloyal) henchmen - charisma only became a dumpstat when play style moved away from mini armies mashing up dungeons! Even your prime req was mostly useful for bonus XP!

 

[Ganymede81]

Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con, Cha...

I just had some serious flashbacks upon seeing those stats arranged in that order.

 

[AmerginLiath]

I still instinctively arrange them that way! It makes for some confusion when I’m reading arrays...

 

[Sacrosanct]

Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con, Cha...

I just had some serious flashbacks upon seeing those stats arranged in that order.

Me too. Flashbacks to 2012 when I finally switched after 30 years from AD&D to 5e

And as AmerfinLiath says, I still default to that order lol

 

[Yaarel]

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Huh. Notice the original spelling of: Mordenkinen.

 

[Kaine]

Matt Colville interviewed his DM mentor Jim Murphy who was a member of the first generation of D&D'ers. It's a 2 hour interview and every minute of it was fantastic. The way the game was played back then, the way he paints the picture, seems (in some regards) similar to today's Adventure League. I wonder if that's where they got the idea? Anywho...

This obviously predates my introduction to D&D (circa 1989-90) so I can't comment with authority personally about how it was "back then" but I started off with AD&D and Cha was not a "dump stat".

 

[oreofox]

I am pretty sure, unless you were a Wizard (aka Magic-User), Int was the "original dump stat", along with Wisdom unless you were playing a Cleric (aka Priest). For many of the stats (at least in 2nd edition, which was my into into the game, and which I have books), you could be just fine with a 6, except in your class's primary stat. Most detriments didn't come into play until you had a 5 or lower, and bonuses for the most part didn't start showing up until you had a 14 or 15. That's one thing I regret with 3rd edition was them making anything less than a 10 you get negatives, and higher than 11 you start getting bonuses.

Seeing Mordenkainen's stats, and I can see them being real. And I am sure Gygax went through plenty of characters before he got those stats. Are they pre-magic items or are those with magic items? Weren't there fountains and other such things that would grant a character +1 to an ability score? Or is that something my mind just made up?

Honestly, I had thought about trying to implement the AD&D stat tables, where you wouldn't be screwed badly with a score of 7 or 8, but the amount of changes that would need to be made to everything would be too much that 6th edition would be out by the time I would finish with that. Though, I think I will make the stat cap be 18 like it was in AD&D, instead of 20. Makes Gauntlets of Ogre Power something that is useful, instead of useless as most characters who use Strength would probably already have a 19 or 20 in it, and it would just go to the wizard or cleric.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Seeing Mordenkainen's stats, and I can see them being real. And I am sure Gygax went through plenty of characters before he got those stats. Are they pre-magic items or are those with magic items? Weren't there fountains and other such things that would grant a character +1 to an ability score? Or is that something my mind just made up?

.

Nope. Castle Amber has a few locations that raise ability scores by 1-3 points. A few other adventures as well.

 

[Lidgar]

Nope. Castle Amber has a few locations that raise ability scores by 1-3 points. A few other adventures as well.

Right. Many adventures in those days, including the original Castle Greyhawk (from what I read of it), had ways to bump up stats, pools and mirrors in particular. Just look at B-1, G-1, etc.

Magic items (such as tome of clear thought, Deck of Many Things, etc.) also provided stat bonuses. I am sure ole' Mord ran into at least a few of these by the time this was typed up.

I wonder how many HP he had at this time? And check out the number of charges on that staff of power. Of course back then, no recharge, so you wanted to be miserly.

Ah, the old days.