Keep on the Shadowfell Anticlimax(some spoilers)

[the Jester]

Hmmm, my group is prolly 2-3 sessions from the end... have to see how this thing plays out.

They have two encounters left on the first dungeon level (kruthiks & blue slime) and 15-18=9 left down below. I can't wait until they meet the cube!!

 

[Grimstaff]

You certainly want Kalarel (or any BBEG) to be the last man standing, if only for cinematic purposes. Some ideas for this:

1) Give damage done to Kalarel to his flunkies instead. You can justify this by having a guard jump in from of him, or give him some sort of magical effect to accomplish this, "as you slash at the priest, you are astounded to see a gaping wound open on his servant's chest instead."

2) Give Kalarel an ability that lets him heal a little bit every time one of his servants is killed. "As you fell the skeleton, a glowing mist arises from the body. You notice Kalarel smile, and he seems to have strengthened somehow."

 

[CharlesRyan]

My group played the final session of KotS last night, and the last encounter was anything but anticlimactic!

My group has six players, and the only allowances I made for the extra player was giving Kalarel an extra action point and ignoring the effect of the Bahamut statuettes. (I also went easy on the wight when I could have written him off--more on that below.) However, the clay scout had escaped both of the previous encounters unharmed, and was added to the mix in the Kalarel battle.

It started out well for the players. When the rogue hit the bottom of the chains he bought himself a round with an incredible Bluff check--enough time for the other PCs to join him. All six PCs (even the wizard!) succeeded in the Athletics checks to get down the chains unharmed. In the first round, the Ranger used his Thundertusk Boar Strike daily to slide the wight into the pit in the eastern dias--bye-bye wight!

As expected, the meleers hacked their way through the skeletons and attacked Kalarel, taking a few rounds to do so due to the dazing and immobilizing effects of Kalarel's and the clay scout's ranged attacks. Kalarel teleported to the magic circle.

I let the wight, who (barely) survived the fall into the pit, climb out through one of the grates a few rounds later. The wight appeared and reanimated the skeletons just as the party, some members still shaking off lingering effects, was finally coalescing around Kalarel. Suddenly they had the wight and two skeletons (albiet all three with only around 10 hp) at their backs, and they still hadn't finished off the clay scout. Their attentions were fragmented, and Kalarel (aided by the circle and the Thing) was able to stand toe-to-toe with the two or three PCs that remained focused on him.

The turning point occurred when the lesser foes were finally dispatched, and the wizard asked if he could make an Arcana check to see if he could deactivate the rift. (The players were concerned that the Thing was going to burst through at any moment.) The wizard made an incredible roll, and though it netted him no knowledge about closing the rift, I did tell him that Kalarel was gaining power from the magic circle--which the heroes hadn't previously clued in to. The PCs immediately began coordinating their attacks, marks, and moving effects to push and keep Kalarel out of the circle, and despite a few more rounds of ups and downs, that was essentially all she wrote.

At the end, only two PCs were bloodied, though most had been bloodied or near death at least once in the fight, and virtually all available healing had been used up. Kalarel's death evoked a loud cheer around the table, and the players all seemed to think it was a very exciting fight and a great end to the adventure!

 

[ventu]

Hi!

my group is going on the final battle next session.

I am actually using some ideas for KotS coming from the FR adaptment (Orcus -> Shar..) so the story is a little more complex..

The current situation is that the dragon Shadraxil and some kobolds are attacking Winterhaven in order to have the tower destroyed (which is the final sigil preventing the effect of the ritual). Padraig is sick and Valthurn has been poisoned to death by the members of the cult of Shar.
Kalarel has already finished the ritual to free the dragon Shussurru is waiting for the tower to be destroyed, and for the party to come (she has been warned).
Sir Keegan has been recently unbound from his crypt-prison, and is now a phantom which is helping the party. He's waiting for his revenge against Shadraxil.

The group just defeated the underpriest and the vampire spawn and is going to descend the pit.
I now have four players, although I had 5 players at the early sessions and 3 players when they started exploring the Keep. I never re-adjusted any encounter.

I am afraid of a TPK: all my players are 2nd level, lacking healing surges and are almost all bloodied (only the Dwarf Fighter is still with a little resources).
BUT they all have 1 AP left, and some Daily powers.
Should I promote them to 3rd level before the end of the final fight? (I don't usually like this MMORPG-like advancement).
I am currently thinking of letting Sir Keegan help them in fight...

Do you think the final encounter will be feasible for a 4-char party bloodied and with almost no healing (paladin, fighter, wizard, rogue)? How would you adapt it to make it hard-but-feasible?

If any of you know italian, cronacles are at http://ventudnd4ed.blogspot.com

 

[Festivus]

My group is just about to enter the final battle but there was a glitch. It seems that the barbarians managed to land a crit on the warrior in the party. While the battle was won, they decided to flee back to the village and get him resurrected before heading into the final fight.

Since the clay golem has notified Kalarel of what is happening, I am going to have him going on the offensive at the city gate with the graveyard encounter, and then run the final battle but with him knowing that they are coming he will be prepared.

 

[ventu]

Do you guys really like this resurrection-per-pay thing?
I find it really bad for the game.. what's more if we really allow 2-3 lvl PC to resurrect, then at high-level it will be really a
"YAAWWN.. I'm dead again.. come on, finish the fight quickly please"

 

[Penguinised]

My group just managed to wipe the floor with Kalarel last night as well, even though they're only level 3 and had not rested for 3 encounters. The Wizard had no surges left so I managed to drop him about half way through, but the Thundertusk Boar Strike used by the ranger with a freakish initiative roll managed to all but permanently remove the Wight and seeing as none of the previous enemies had either fallen or flew down the hole it was somewhat anticlimactic.
I decided to use the non-combat challenge from the WotC website as well, rewarding them when they completed it by removing the effect of the floor runecircle. Kalarel was kinda going a bit mental with his ranged stuff at this stage and used both his action points in the turns that the party was at the altar. I like to reward initiative so I thought that the removal of the circle effect was a good idea, but it really put Kalarel on a much shorter lifespan so I wouldn't recommend it to other DMs unless the party is in struggletown. My group also had no problem with the slippery chains... they decided to knot some rope, attach it to the grate at the top and use their climbing gear that they had all bought.
Oh well, seeing as they didn't return to town to save it from the undead hordes; even when one of the PCs joined late and came from the town and told them of the threat; they've got a nice surprise waiting for them when they try and claim their reward

 

[Yanomahir]

Hi!

Do you think the final encounter will be feasible for a 4-char party bloodied and with almost no healing (paladin, fighter, wizard, rogue)? How would you adapt it to make it hard-but-feasible?

I was in a similar situation (DMing) just last night. The party had gone through a bunch of surges, but saved their dailies, thinking that wherever the portal was would be a tougher fight. So my party was in a bit better shape than yours, but we were missing a player, so it was just the Paladin, Wizard, and Rogue. They were all level 3.

It was really messy. Both the Paladin and Rogue ran out of surges, and all three used their second wind. And this is after I reduced each enemy's HP by 25% going in.

What can you do to make it feasible? I'd remove one of the skeleton servants and give Kalarel a bloodied score equal to X, where X is when the first PC drops to make death saves, or 93, whichever occurs first. This guarantees that deadly feeling, while still giving breathing room for the players to succeed.

That's what I wish I would have done. Instead, I nearly killed 2/3 of the party. The only reason they survived was two 20s on death saves. (well, a human rolled a 19, but still)

 

[Festivus]

Do you guys really like this resurrection-per-pay thing?
I find it really bad for the game.. what's more if we really allow 2-3 lvl PC to resurrect, then at high-level it will be really a
"YAAWWN.. I'm dead again.. come on, finish the fight quickly please"

Versus what? New character? It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. "Sorry, Bob the fighter is dead, take 30 minutes to roll up Bob2 with exactly the same build." versus "The rest of the party survives the encounter and takes bob to the village priestess who could possibly aid you". Which sounds more enjoyable to the game table?

Can you define exacly how you find it bad for the game? In my experience it's only helped to make things more enjoyable at the table. There is still the possibility of a TPK, in which case everyone is rolling up a new character. If Bob the fighter wasn't working out quite right that player could always refuse a resurection and build a new character up. But if they liked the character, and there were close ties to that character in the party, I could see where it's more of a team building thing than a breaking down thing. Lastly, dead is a far rarer occurance in 4E it seems. So unless it's a massive damage thing or a long battle and out of surges situation, you are going to survive.

Edit: There is also the economic draw on the party funds. 500GP for a group of level 3 characters is a LOT.

 

[ventu]

Versus what? New character? It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. "Sorry, Bob the fighter is dead, take 30 minutes to roll up Bob2 with exactly the same build." versus "The rest of the party survives the encounter and takes bob to the village priestess who could possibly aid you". Which sounds more enjoyable to the game table?

Well Maybe I take game too seriously in this case, but I personally penalize death a lot. This means most of the time that the player will have to wait until the end of the *adventure* before re-joining the group and usually arrives with a character which is at least one level lower than the lowest level character in the party (I reward experience individually).

While the dead waits for playing again, he can assist me as a DM in the adventure, interpreting NPCs or other situations.

Can you define exacly how you find it bad for the game? In my experience it's only helped to make things more enjoyable at the table.

You are right, "bad for the game" is probably not a good statement. What I mean is that resurrection makes DnD loose a lot of the "second life" potential that is intrinsic in roleplays.
If you want to create a strong relationship beetween the players and their characters, in my opinion it is essential to

1) ensure that level advancement is quite slow, so that all PC can enjoy and learn to use well all their powers.
2) rule out resurrection except in extreme exceptional cases that should probably include an adventure
3) well, give some importance to the ordinary-life aspects of the character (family, possessions, interactions with contacts and background resources)

Lastly, dead is a far rarer occurance in 4E it seems. So unless it's a massive damage thing or a long battle and out of surges situation, you are going to survive.

Mh.. somewhere in the forum I posted some HR that could make the combat more dangerous... anyway as a DM I am just taking the advice of last Dungeon Magazine editorial: use Coup de Grace!

Anyway, sorry for the OT digression..

I'll let you know how the final encounter against Kalarel works out