King Arthur d20 - Not Necessarily Pendragon d20

[sepulchrave]

Hi Colonel

Initially, I found the character levels for these guys a little on the steep side, but quickly changed my mind. Low magic and the standard AC / ablative hp system actually seems ideally suited to the setting. It baits the question of where the squires, knights errant and knights bachelor fall within this schema - I'd be tempted to slice up the field something like this:

Squire: F1-F2
Errant: F3-F4
Bachelor: F5-F6
Knight of Renown: F7-F9
Knight of Quality: F10-F13

The idea of having a character start as a squire at 1st level has both a true Arthurian "ring" to it, as well as offering great RP opportunities and making plot hooks dead easy as well. Winning your spurs at 3rd level might be a little on the low side (Perhaps Unearthed Arcana adolescent conditioning demands that it should be 4th?).

Its interesting to me just how damn dangerous a fighter becomes when he concentrates on mounted combat - I suppose most D&D fighters in my experience either go for the spring attack chain, or have a utilitarian mix of feats which include an archery chain. Usually the Paladin, with his inferior feat selection, is left with the mounted warrior role - but he's 12th or 15th level before he really excels (and he gets a special mount, of course). Fighters who opt to specialize in mounted combat get very dangerous, very fast.

Talking of which, how do you feel about Paladins? I'm inclined to see them restricted (maybe even PrC???). Lancelot and Galahad, of course. Some (but not all) of the Grail knights. Arthur, maybe. With others, I find the analogy difficult. The fact that this is an ideal which every knight aspires towards (or is supposed to aspire towards) makes me feel that a Paladin prestige class might be the answer.

 

[Sammael99]

[OT] Sepulchrave wanted

Sepulchrave,

You are badly wanted in the Story Hour section....

 

[Red Baron]

Few if any dungeon crawls, little armor, majority of the opponents are humans. Any monster would be of the legendary type. Treasure and Magic Items are gone except for some rare artifacts (religious, or from lost races). Restructure what you think an adventure is. SOme of the recent historical adventures in Dungeon can help with this.

I mostly agree, although I'm not sure what you mean by "little armour" -- depending on whether you're going with Arthurian romance as your defining era, then there's lots of big, heavy plate armour, whereas if you're sticking to a more "historical" feel, then there're still mail shirts and hauberks, that sort of thing.

Likewise, if you use Le Morte d'Arthur and its peers as a base, then there are quite a few giants and such (although, arguably, one could feel free to have "giant" mean just a truly huge man, 7 or 8 feet tall...)

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Tobe honest, I thought the knights above were a bit high in level also, but I did try to do a "kinda-sorta" conversion of what is in the 1e Deities & Demigods. There, the levels are pretty much what is presented above.

However, if anyone has any thoughts on lower-level knights, I'd be happy to see them. I was thinking about it, and if a campaign is primarily focused on knights, then perhaps the levels are not that bad. The reason I think this is because there would be no healer in the party, and a party of all fighters, knights or not, could find themselves in quite a pickle during pitched battles if they are low level.

Paladins I wouldn't restrict, but they would be the most solitary of knights. That is, perhaps they would be best played in a one-on-one campaign. Paladins fit the milieu very well, even if there aren't many examples in the legends - Galahad is one for sure, Lancelot may have been one until his affair with Guinevere.

As for monsters, I would tend to err on the side of excitement rather than staying true to the legends. Or, maybe a better way to put it is to give the knights worthy opponents that fit the setting, whether or not they appeared in legends. Off the top of my head, these are some of the critters I'd allow in such a setting:

* dragons and dragon-like monsters, like wyverns
* griffons and hippogriffs
* ghosts and other incorporeal undead
* most fey - there always seem to be at least a hint of these creatures in the tales
* dire animals
* giants
* fiends - though I'd probably lean more towards using half-fiends and fiendish creatures (a la the respective templates)

I'm going to post a giant fairy knight soon that'll give you some idea of what kind of monsters I have in mind (and ultimately, the kind of campaign I'm thinking of).

 

[ColonelHardisson]

OK, here is the Giant Fairy Knight I mentioned above. He's based on an Ogre Mage with the Half-Fiend Template, with a few modifications and 7 levels of fighter.

Now, this guy is pretty tough. However, I like using the device of creatures having vulnerabilities that can be exploited. This seems especially appropriate to an Arthurian setting - perhaps the Knight does not regenerate damage by any weapon that has been blessed by the purest maiden, or loses his resistances if within 100 yards of a holy site, or he cannot abide the touch of iron. Something along those lines. While plot devices like this have been used in stories, the main inspiration in this case comes from The Grey Knight, a Pendragon adventure from years back.

Whaddaya think?

Unseelie Faerie Knight, Giant: Faerie Giant5 /Fighter7; CR 15 Size:L; Type Large Giant; HD (5d8)+(7d10)+60; hp 141; Init +6; Spd Walk 30'; AC 17; Huge Heavy Lance (2d8+10 20/x3) or Huge Greatsword (2d8+10 19-20/x2) +19/+14 melee, +11/+6 ranged; SA: Regeneration (Ex), Spell-like Abilities(Sp), Immune to poison, Acid Resistance 20, Cold Resistance 20, Electrical Resistance 20, Fire Resistance 20, Darkness 3/day, Blasphemy, Desecrate, Poison 3/day, Contagion; Vision: Darkvision 60; AL:NE; SV Fort +9, Ref +3, Will +3; Str 30, Dex 15, Con 20, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 20. Height 10', weight 600 lbs

Skills and Feats: Concentration +11, Handle Animal +11, Hide +0, Knowledge (Arcana) +7, Listen +9, Ride +19, Spellcraft +7, Spot +9, Alertness, Armor Proficiency (Heavy), Armor Proficiency (Light), Armor Proficiency (Medium), Improved Initiative, Large and in Charge, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-By Attack, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Spirited Charge, Trample

Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day-charm person, cone of cold, fear, polymorph self, and sleep. These abilities are as the spells cast by a 9th-level sorcerer (save DC 13 + spell level).

Regeneration (Ex): The Fairy Knight takes normal damage from any fire or acid damage that exceeds the knight's resistance to those attacks. If he loses a limb or body part, he can reattach it by holding the severed member to the stump. Reattachment takes 1 minute. If the head or other vital organ is severed, it must be reattached within 10 minutes or the creature dies. The Fairy Knight cannot regrow lost body parts.

Possessions: Huge Greatsword, Huge Heavy Lance, Giant-sized Full Plate, Fiendish Dire Horse (the Dire Horse can be found in Masters of the Wild; otherwise, the Dire template found at the Creature Catalog can be applied to a heavy warhorse).

 

[Red Baron]

Nice interpretation, Col. I like where you're going with all this.

I don't like the idea of tarnishing the beauty and majesty of the Arthurian legends by running them in a game (I can't even stand the vast majority of contemporary treatments of the stories).

But if I were going to run such a game, I think I'd be heading the same sorts of ways you seem to be. Nice stuff.

P.S. Remind me not to scoff at fey anymore...

 

[Wolvorine]

I've never seen the Pendragon RPG (although if I ever have the spare cash, I'd love to), but I will say I agree with a much earlier poster -- ever since I read his books, Steven Lawhead's Arthur has been the 'official sourse material' for King Arthur for me. If nothing else, I loved the differences, how the characters seemed like people, not cold archtypes, and the left-field take on Merlin (Myrddin) was the best.

I've been toying with writeups for Arthur, Lancelot,, Merlin, and some others, but it's only toying so far (I just looked at my notes, and decided to make Merlin a Wiz10/Dru10, instead of a Wiz8/Dru10, for example).

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I was thinking that becoming a Knight would be something like qualifying for a Prestige Class, but without any game benefits other than the title and other rp stuff, like land. One could qualify to be a Knight and a Prestige Class like the Cavalier, but becoming one does not necessitate becoming the other. That is, a Cavalier may be elite cavalry, not a member of the noble class. Until the character qualifies, he/she is a Squire. Since most Prestige Classes let the character qualify by 5th level, depending on how the player focuses the character, it seems reasonable to set the prerequisites so that a player could achieve Knighthood by around 5th level. However, since age was often a prereq for Knighthood in the real world, it seems interesting to me to also use such a prereq. So, the character may not be a knight until he's considerable higher in level than 5th, depending on what age he started adventuring and how quickly he rose in level. I've also been thinking about how to handle the "professional Squire," the guy that seems to stick with one Knight until he gets old. A multiclass combo like Fighter/Expert seems appropriate.

 

[Wolvorine]

?

So.. was this the end of this thread, or did it just get forgotten?

(Or: Long-winded Bump)

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I was hoping others would have had some stuff contribute. I'll post whatever I come up with. If I get some time, I'll try to get the ball rolling again.