Knowledge:Local... What is meant by Local?

[Tonguez]

I certainly agree with those who favor Gather Info in lieu of Option #3...I had a player IMC who wrote up a biography for his 1st level Rogue including being kidnapped by Pirates from his homeland on another continent, and suddenly he's in this town 500 miles from the coast (having escaped Rum, Sodomy and the Lash) and 20 minutes into the new town he attempts to use Knowledge: Local...? I mean, even if one were to accept the idea of it being like the info in a travel guide, one still needs to have realistic requisite time to actually read the thing...

Not really if the rogue has been observant I'd give him something like

"As you walk the street you notice that the towns population seems to be dominated by gnomes and flumphs. The Gnomes are welldressed and many wear rings and amulets of gold and amythest. The flumphs hover at the edge of the street and are occasionally approach by the gnomes who make a peculiar gesture with their hand to forehead and then leave.
Humans are well represented here, as are goblins. The humans seem to be merchants and are very diferential to the gnomes who they greet with outstretched arms, palms forward and thumbs pointed up. The gnomes do not return the gesture which may indicate a class distinction.
It appears that the goblins are a low caste possible even slaves, they do all the manual work and the behest of the humans.
Strangely you are yet to see an Elf"

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Not really if the rogue has been observant I'd give him something like

"As you walk the street you notice that the towns population seems to be dominated by gnomes and flumphs...

This is more of the Gather Info skill, not Knowledge (local). The latter is an academic skill whereas the former is not (necessarily).

 

[MarkB]

This is more of the Gather Info skill, not Knowledge (local). The latter is an academic skill whereas the former is not (necessarily).

Gather Information is more looking for specific information, rather than just getting a general feel for a place. Knowledge (local) can cover that quite nicely. Aside from the name, there's no particular reason to consider it primarily an academic skill.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Knowledge: Local tells you about, "legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids."

Okay, so customs, traditions, laws, and humanoids are academic type stuff. You don't need to live in a particular area to know them any more than you need to have lived through a period of time to make Knowledge: History checks on it. Remember that knowledge checks are almost by definition things you know without having personally experienced them. If you've seen a blue dragon breath electricity, you don't need to make a Knowledge: Arcana check to remember that fact.

In fact, I'd argue that your home region is a place where Knowledge: Local checks are irrelevant. If you've grown up in a gnomish village, you know the local personalities, laws, and traditions. You don't need knowledge ranks to tell you those things. It's only when you visit the elvish metropolis next door that you need to start rolling the dice.

My solution would be to give everybody a +10 circumstance bonus on knowledge local in their home area and roll normally everywhere else.

EDIT: I mean, aren't all the other knowledge skills subject to the same type of thinking? Is someone going to have Knowledge: Geography of a place they've never been? How about Knowledge: Dungeoneering for an ooze they've never seen? Or Knowledge: Nobility for the royal family of another nation?

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Aside from the name, there's no particular reason to consider it primarily an academic skill.

All the descriptions/discussions/advice I've ever read from game designers is to the contrary.

There's no reason why you can't use Gather Information for a general feel of an area. In fact, that's exactly what it's for. Until you've gathered some general info, you're not going to know what specific questions to ask.

 

[Prophet2b]

Seems more like Gather Information to me.

We usually use Knowledge [Local] as option 3. If the characters don't know by their Local check, then, they roll a Gather Information check to find out. The Gather Information check is usually easier, but takes more time.

And, of course, sometimes there are just things they can't know, so they don't get a Local check for those.

I kind of see the two as different, but similar (in some cases), and ultimately it is up to the DM to decide which one is appropriate in which situation.

 

[ScipioX]

I see a lot of DM's (and the writers of the forgotten realms setting) who like to gimp knowledge (local).

Confining it to a specific area basically makes the skill nearly worthless, especially as the characters level up and begin traveling more.

Just compare it to the other knowledge skills. With knowledge (planes) you can get randomly gated to Limbo, and instantly make knowledge checks to identify where you are and how to survive and get around. Knowledge (local) should have the same kind of power. If you get transported to a random city, you can make a check to see if you have heard much about the culture and background of that city.

Yes, it stretches the imagination that a character might know things about a place he's never been to, but that applies to both knowledge (local) and knowledge (planes)!

 

[Dnjscott]

It's option 3. Check out what the SRD says:

Like the Craft and Profession skills, Knowledge actually encompasses a number of unrelated skills. Knowledge represents a study of some body of lore, possibly an academic or even scientific discipline.

Below are listed typical fields of study.

Arcana (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, cryptic phrases, constructs, dragons, magical beasts)
Architecture and engineering (buildings, aqueducts, bridges, fortifications)
Dungeoneering (aberrations, caverns, oozes, spelunking)
Geography (lands, terrain, climate, people)
History (royalty, wars, colonies, migrations, founding of cities)
Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids)
Nature (animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, seasons and cycles, weather, vermin)
Nobility and royalty (lineages, heraldry, family trees, mottoes, personalities)
Religion (gods and goddesses, mythic history, ecclesiastic tradition, holy symbols, undead)
The planes (the Inner Planes, the Outer Planes, the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, outsiders, elementals, magic related to the planes)


...it isn't handled any differently than the others. And, besides, as others have said, it's not really any less realistic than knowing something about all architecture, all dungeons, all history, all nature, all nobles and royals, all planes, or all religion...

 

[lukelightning]

Option 3. Otherwise the player is probably just wasting his skill points.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Knowledge (local) is something that 4E will clean up, I'm sure.

I use a variant of Option Three ... I give players +2 on Knowledge (local) checks for their home region. (I base region roughly on population density ... Sharn is a region, as are the Eldeen Reaches.) If they take no ranks in it, they're still limited to "common knowledge" (DC 10 or less), but that's enough to get around reasonably.