Knowledge:Local... What is meant by Local?

[Thurbane]

At the start of my Eberron campaign I gave every PC a point in Knowledge:Local that applies to their town/place of origin. I feel that there aren't any guidelines as to what is meant by the term "local" though. I've been thinking along three lines...

1: Knowledge:Local applies specifically to the town a PC grew up in. I feel like this makes the most sense; after all how much more "local" can you get than that? On the other hand, it creates a problem for PC's who were nomadic and makes the skill fairly useless if a PC hailed from, say, Ratville (Pop 34). It also means that it's a crappy skill if PC's travel alot.

2: Knowledge:Local applies to a region, such as Breland in Eberron or Zathisk in the Scarred Lands. Broadening the skill to an entire region makes it much more useful, and it's not terribly difficult to believe that a PC would learn something about the area/country that they grew up in. I'm leaning towards this.

3: Knowledge:Local is a skill that can be applied anywhere one travels. A point in this skill lets a PC know something about any area they travel in. Seems a bit much and the only (weak) justification for it that I can see is that there is nothing explicitly stating that the skill is limited to an area.

Anyone? How have you used this skill in your games?

When we first started playing 3E, we took it as option 2; however, consesus seems to indicate that option 3 is the way to go.

No NPC listed in a WotC product is listed as having Local Knowledge (Smithtown) AFAIK, they're all simply listed as Knowledge (Local) X ranks...

 

[Artoomis]

I seem to recall reading some WotC advice somewhere (perhaps even a rule?) in some supplemental book or other that said "local" means "local" to where you were raised/trained, but it applies to wherever you are if you stick around for a significant amount of time (something like a month, I think).

That's just a memory, though, I do not know thw source. It certainly seems reasonable, though.

 

[Prophet2b]

With knowledge (planes) you can get randomly gated to Limbo, and instantly make knowledge checks to identify where you are and how to survive and get around. Knowledge (local) should have the same kind of power.

Yes, it stretches the imagination that a character might know things about a place he's never been to, but that applies to both knowledge (local) and knowledge (planes)!

I agreed with everything you said, though I don't think it stretches the imagination. Knowledge represents just that: knowledge. I can know a lot about Paris, even though I've never been there. In fact, if I spent the large majority of my time studying countries and cities, I might know more about some places than their inhabitants do.

It doesn't help me fight better in those places, though, and it doesn't help me make contacts or meet people or anything like that. It just lets me know what a place is like.

Skills represent things that characters are GOOD in. If a character puts a lot of points into knowledge local, then that character must have spent a lot of time reading about other places, or time travelling to other places, etc. That's just the way it works.

Just like the Knowledge (Planes) skill. If that's what you do (study the planes) then it makes perfect sense that you could identify the planes and know a lot about them when you're there. Or tumble - if you're particularly dextrous and work on your gymnastics, you can tumble really dang well! Or spellcraft - if you pump up your spellcraft, you can identify the spells that other casters are casting.

That's just how they work. There's nothing bad or wrong with a character knowing a lot about where he is if he's spent a lot of time studying those things. Those are points he could have put toward tumbling, swimming, diplomacy, or something else. Why should he be "less good" concerning Knowledge (Local) if he has 15 points in it, than if he has 15 points in Diplomacy? He shouldn't!

PS: That wasn't all just a reply to ScipioX, but to the thread in general.

 

[Erithtotl]

Another good reason for option 3 is that it provides a synergy bonus with Gather Info. Having to apply that conditionally would become a cumbersome game mechanic.

 

[DreadArchon]

I certainly agree with those who favor Gather Info in lieu of Option #3...

I, on the other hand, certainly don't. Gather Info and Knowledge (X) are diametrically opposed--Gather Info applies exclusively to things that you do not currently know, Knowledge (X) applies exclusively to things that you do currently know. The only time they start to cross is when you're trying to expand on what you know, but you still don't roll Knowledge for that.

So, as far as I'm concerned, definitely option 3. I usually think of it as being analagous to Knowledge: Planes, exclusive to the material plane. Having one Knowledge skill for "the enitire multiverse" and another for "everything within four blocks of me" is ridiculous, IMAO.

 

[seans23]

I usually think of it as being analagous to Knowledge: Planes, exclusive to the material plane. Having one Knowledge skill for "the enitire multiverse" and another for "everything within four blocks of me" is ridiculous, IMAO.

I wouldn't even make local exclusive to the material plane. You should be able to use Knowledge (Local) to determine customs, laws, traditions, etc on other planes as well.
The DM can just apply a circumstantial penalty if you're not from that plane.

 

[Prophet2b]

I wouldn't even make local exclusive to the material plane. You should be able to use Knowledge (Local) to determine customs, laws, traditions, etc on other planes as well.
The DM can just apply a circumstantial penalty if you're not from that plane.

Hmm... I'm not sure I'd go that far. What wouldn't Knowledge Local cover, then?

 

[IanB]

My own house rules for knowledge (local):

- it can always be used to identify humanoids, like any other knowledge skill
- you get your full ranks in it in your 'home region' (in my GH game, more or less defined as anything that gets its own entry in the old campaign set)
- you get to use half your ranks in it after spending a week someplace, and full ranks after a month. Need information in a new place fast? Use Gather Information or in some cases Bardic Knowledge or another knowledge skill (often geography) will work.

 

[frankthedm]

Since Knowledge (local) is a Rogue class skill, I like to use it as a sort of "streetwise" skill - how to act right with the different underground groups and cliques of a town translates reasonably well between regions.

I view it as "Streetwise" & "Hearth wisdom" rolled into one.

I prefer to bitch about knowledge: planes myself. A skill covering the whole planet stops seeming odd when another skill covers multiple infinite planes. That one I busted up myself along with taking some stuff out of Know: Arcana and Know:Religion.
Knowledge; Dragon lore: Know what these great beasts keep to themselves.
Knowledge; Religion: Use to answer moral questions, synergizes with Daemonology, Necrology and Sacred lore.

Knowledge: Planes: Removed, some new knowledges
Elementalisim: Elementals and their kin as well as Space, Matter, Energy and its interactions.
Necrology: A dark knowledge of that which denies death, where it dwells and how to do so.
Dæmonology: Places, politics, policies and inhabitants of Evil Aligned planes.
Sacred lore: Places, politics, policies and inhabitants of Good Aligned planes.
Far Rælm Lore: a collection of things that violate the God’s wills.

 

[DreadArchon]

Hmm... I'm not sure I'd go that far. What wouldn't Knowledge Local cover, then?

Ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, cryptic phrases, constructs, dragons, magical beasts, buildings, aqueducts, bridges, fortifications, aberrations, caverns, oozes, spelunking, lands, terrain, climate, people, royalty, wars, colonies, migrations, founding of cities, animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, seasons and cycles, weather, vermin, lineages, heraldry, family trees, mottoes, personalities, gods and goddesses, mythic history, ecclesiastic tradition, holy symbols, undead, the Inner Planes, the Outer Planes, the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, outsiders, elementals, and magic related to the planes.

You could, of course, try to argue your DM into some of those ("Well maybe this guy was in a local legend of some sort?"), though. Is that what's bothering you? I don't see it as an issue. As a DM, I usually let several Knowledge skills apply to many checks* (often with different DC's), so having Local be one of them doesn't bother me. I could see how that might bother someone else, though. (Despite that WotC books give three different Knowledge skills to check for on any one fact...)

I agree with seans23, actually. Knowledge (Local) identifies what it says that it does, regardless of location, even on other planes.




*Example from earlier in my campaign: The PC's need to know about a certain warlord, who happens to have been (1) an Aberration (2) from the Abyss (3) in charge of a town on the prime (4) for the last 50 years. To cut down (rapidly mounting) confusion over who knew what, I said, "Okay, Knowledge checks. Trained only [DC above 10]. Dungeoneering, Local, History, Planes, or Bardic." There was a couple rolls per player, most failed, and I answered the two successes based on which fields made it.