KotS: exploring by room or by area? **spoilers**

[theRogueRooster]

With 4E's move to describing dungeons by area instead of room, I'm curious how DMs reveal encounter areas to their PCs once combat starts: do you lay out the entire encounter area or just what the PCs can reasonably see? I can see how knowledge of the surrounding layout could alter tactics (perhaps unfairly to the dungeon inhabitants?) but I don't know if, at the end of the day, this actually matters to the whole game experience.

For example:

Spoiler

In the first encounter at the Keep, the goblins' tactics are to avoid melee and basically run in a circle from room to room. If the PCs are already aware of the layout this tactic is harder to pull off as it is fairly obvious how to cut the goblins off.

I'm used to revealing dungeons one room at a time but am considering moving to revealing the entire encounter area at once. Is this folly?

-tRR

 

[Reaper Steve]

I've been contemplating the same thing. The simulationist in me wants to only show what the PCs can see... but 4E is teaching me that 'playing the game' is MUCH more important than accurate simulation. I'd rather plop down a lot of map and then have non-stop action versus killing the pace everytime I need to show more map. In that vein, I'm more inclined to lay out what is necessary for each encounter.

I'm building the maps using tiles & props from www.worldworksgames.com and www.fatdragongames.com. How much is I expose at a time will really come down to how I build my layouts. Probably each encounter will be a section (minus any secret areas.)

It'll be a couple weeks before I can really dive into it... but I'll try to post some pics of my progress.

 

[Griogre]

Personally I wouldn't reveal anything the characters couldn't see, especially for combat encounters. Showing just the room they can see just adds tension when there are openings / doors leading to unknown area(s). PCs will watch or guard areas like that.

You do have to take convenience and wasted time into account also, though. If showing more than what the party could see would have no effect on their tactics - I don't think showing a couple of areas is a big thing. I think it's a good way of telling your players there is nothing here of interest - move along...

One of the things I don't like about the Flavor/description text in KotS is sometimes it is about areas the PC just could not see right away.

Edit: Ninjaed. Skeleton Key Games makes great tiles also: http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=80&filters=0_0_0

 

[ryryguy]

On a related note, does KotS actually ever say what the rules are for darkness, dim light, low-light vision, and light sources are? I couldn't find it other than some note in the first dark area saying basically, if it's dark they can't see anything unless they have light. Duh.

I guess you could always go with 3e style for this, but it seemed to me that some of the dark areas might play better if light sources didn't let you see quite that far.

 

[ryryguy]

One of the things I don't like about the Flavor/description text in KotS is sometimes it is about areas the PC just could not see right away.

Agreed... especially because in many encounters clearly the PCs aren't supposed to see some of the opponents right off the bat, yet the areas where they are does get described or is visible from where the PC's start. For example...

Spoiler

In the very first ambush the dragonshields aren't supposed to come out until the minions show themselves... also there is a note that if the players are off the road and get line of sight to one of the hidden kobolds the kobold is spotted and attacks right away. But two of the dragonshields are positioned to the east of a rock on the south of the road where it seems like they'd be in line of sight to the party as they enter on the road.

But maybe I'm not understanding the stealth rules properly?

 

[Reaper Steve]

ryryguy...
LOS to those creatures is blocked by the bushes that are on the half of the map that's not printed in the book.

Lighting:
sunrods provide bright light in a 20 square radius, and each character has two.
Dim light provides concealment (-2) to creatures without low light vision.

 

[Stoat]

As a rule of thumb, I don't reveal an area until the PC's can see it. I play online, however, and its a lot easier to manage than it would be on a battlemat.

 

[Griogre]

I guess you could always go with 3e style for this, but it seemed to me that some of the dark areas might play better if light sources didn't let you see quite that far.

One difference between 4th ed and 3rd ed is they got rid of shadowly light - and made the radius of the light sources bigger, pretty much rolling back light size radius to the AD&D ones.

If you have not yet read the FAQ/Errata on WotC's site make sure you take a look at it - they seem very quick to release errata and I know I got back quick responses to a couple of questions.

KotS Errata/FAQ: http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin...WVwIG9uIHRoZSBTaGFkb3dmZWxs&p_li=&p_topview=1

 

[theRogueRooster]

I'm building the maps using tiles & props from www.worldworksgames.com and www.fatdragongames.com. How much is I expose at a time will really come down to how I build my layouts. Probably each encounter will be a section (minus any secret areas.)

I'm contemplating something similar (I'm planning to build the dungeon layout electronically via Inkscape, print it out on cardstock, mount it on foamcore, and then trim off the excess foamcore so that only the dungeon remains). Doing this though makes me inclined toward revealing the whole encounter area at once. Having each individual room and hallway as separate pieces would be logistical nightmare for me.

So I think I'll try out revealing the whole encounter area for this adventure, and if it doesn't work, I'll just go back to revealing a room at a time instead (and fall back on my trusty Tac-Tiles).

-tRR

 

[kboleen]

I plan to use Mage Knight's old 3-D Dungeon Tiles. The tiles themselves are physically 2 inches by 2 inches and I am in the process of gridding them out with a sharpy to make them appear 4 sets of 1 inch squares per 2x2 tile (hope that made sense). I plan to pre-assembly the rooms and hallways and lay them out as the players explore. I also plan to use the Dungeon accessories from MK and accessories from the old Heroquest game (desks, bookshelves, and other manner of dressings). All in all I think it should make for interesting dungeons.