LA Question

[Helmed]

I'd like like to get a few opinions about the LA of this weakened version of the Shadow Creature template from LoM applied to a MM Gray Elf. Is it a LA+1 or +2?


Gray Elf House Ahali
Descendents of shadow-stuff infused elves, Ahali are the "world spies" of the Gray elves.

Racial Traits
Size: Medium
Type: Outsider (Native)
Ability Adjustment: +2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, –2 Strength
Base Speed: 40 feet

Immunity to magic sleep effects
+2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.

Low-light Vision
Dark Vision 60ft

Weapon Proficiency: Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.

+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, Spot, and Move Silently checks.

Shadow Blend (Su):

Fast Healing 2 (In any conditions other than full daylight)

Secret Door Search

Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any unrestricted.

Favored Class: Rogue

Alignment: Usually Neutral

 

[cjosephs1s]

My two cents worth on it is a +2 and here's why. Based on some of the rules in Savage Species and some of the builds there any regen is almost always a +1 on its own. Then you have a second set of stats that get altered so that is another +1. Just my two cents.

My best advice is to ask your GM. They ultimately have the sayso in what the level adjustment is. Also a good idea of ECL is take the HD of the critter+ its Challenge Rating. Granted its not 100% accurate but its a good precedent.

Hope something in there was useful

 

[Visigani]

I'd give it a +1, really. Compare this "template" to "Feral". =)

 

[Greenfield]

The 2nd set of stats being adjusted? That's a Gray Elf, straight out of the book.

What this character has that a regular Gray Elf doesn't is short and simple:

1) Darkvision
2) Fast Heal 2
3) +10 base speed
4) Favored Class is Rogue instead of Wizard

I'd call that a +1 ECL, mostly for the Fast Heal. Remember that his Outsider racial type, he can't be brought back by Raise Dead, Resurrection, or Reincarnate spells. Only True Resurrection will revive this one, so that may may be a career limiting factor.

 

[kitcik]

Feral is mispriced so ignore that.

Did you peeps notice Shadow Blend????

Full concealment in anything other than total daylight?

With that plus fast healing, I am going to LA +3 minimum.

Shadow Blend is REALLY powerful.

 

[Greenfield]

Yep. missed that.

Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination other than full daylight, a shadow mastiff can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability.
A daylight spell, however, will.

Yeah, in many ways that's better than Invisibility. Possibly better than Greater Invisibility.

So yeah, LA +3, minimum.

 

[Helmed]

Thank you for the replies. LA+3 is too high for the purposes of this race.

Would replacing Shadow Blend with Hide in Plain Sight (Su) drop the power enough to make this race be considered a "strong" LA+1?

If not, would additionally giving it Shadow Jump (Su) 40ft/ day push it past LA +2?

SRD Note: An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

 

[kitcik]

HiPS is also pretty strong, although nothing close to Shadow Blend.

Give it HiPS and kill fast healing and maybe you get a strong +1.

Shadow Jump is also strong, and 40' broken up how you want it is actually pretty darn good.

I think with HiPS, fast healing and Shadow Jump you are again back to LA +3 but I could be swayed.

 

[Helmed]

Okay, how about this:

Size: Medium
Type: Outsider (Native)
Ability Adjustment: +2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, –2 Strength
Base Speed: 40 feet

Immunity to magic sleep effects
+2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.

Low-light Vision
Dark Vision 60ft

Weapon Proficiency: Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.

+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, Spot, and Hide checks.

Hide in Plain Sight (Su):

Shadow "Jaunt" (Su): 40 ft. Same as Shadow Jump (Su), but limited to a single daily use.

Fast Healing 2 (In any conditions other than full daylight)

Secret Door Search

Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any unrestricted.

Favored Class: Rogue

Alignment: Usually Neutral

 

[Jimlock]

Possibly better than Greater Invisibility.

Not possibly... surely.

HiPS is also pretty strong, although nothing close to Shadow Blend.

Give it HiPS and kill fast healing and maybe you get a strong +1.

Shadow Blend is definitely better, but HIPS is very powerful too, given a good Hide skill.

By getting HIPS and removing fast heal, i'd say +2 still. Don't forget about Darkvision, +10 base speed, +2 on the 2 most useful abilities for what this race is destined for, and a favored class that lets one mix it up well with a rogue in.

Shadow Jump is also strong, and 40' broken up how you want it is actually pretty darn good.

I think with HiPS, fast healing and Shadow Jump you are again back to LA +3 but I could be swayed.

I agree. +3 for the above, because IMO this is a race plus a Shadowdancer as a bonus.


A few things to keep in mind. HIPS is an ability the Assassin get at 8th level (min 12th character level) and an ability the Shadowdancer gets at 1st (minimum 8th character level)... But given how the Shadowdancer sucks in general (despite being one of the most colorful PrCs) and how hard it is to get there with all those sucky requirements, i'd say that this tells us something about the value of HIPS.

Shadow Jump is pretty powerful too. Great ability to automatically escape from being bound, from being grappled from being imprisoned... from most of bad situations without provoking AoOs, without Concentration checks, without equipment or components.

As for Shadow Blend, I think that the SRD quote provided by Greenfield talks for itself.


Don't get me wrong I'm not being judgmental about the race, I think it can be an interesting one indeed. I just think that it comes at a heavy price.