'Lack of Heroism'

[James the Newbie]

I am trying to DM, and I will be the first to admit im not the best at it. But I am struggling as my players are very much taking the view

"Screw the plot, lets go kill things" From the group mage. So I thought fair enough, I will tend to the groups need's like a DM should. So I set up a nice big cave for them to kill things in, not quite as fun as running a proper plot, but not bad.

This is when my players decided "Lets leave this dungeon I dont trust that corner" letting them have many many small encounters, and then resting. This of course lets them level up, but there is no story nor heroism, and my characters seem to enjoy becoming highway men, and just looting gold in general.

Other times one person goes through, and because there is a danger, the others wont follow, the lack of team work tends to cause this one player (I like how he is the one who tends to take risks) to be mauled horrifically by an encounter the group could easily defeat.

How far do you think that I may not be creating engaging enough plots (The current one, that I actually managed to make them run through, is hunting a necromancer, we just started a new campaign). And how far could it be that I need to sit down and talk with my players?

I very much want to take the view 'your character is your own, take your own routs' but this is becoming slightly un-fun for me. My current way of dealing with it, is to not give them access to the gear and gold that they would otherwise get, if they dont get to the end of a boss dungeon of their choice, I have also started listing general quests that they want to take, but this just feels like rail roading and I dont want to keep that up.

The issue with this group is overall, that if I wanted to make a town under threat from a goblin chief or some such thing, my party would be the sort to go "Hmmm sounds do dangerous" which makes me almost question the point of DMing.

I would really appreciate any tips on how to make players feel more engaged, as I don't think that it is necessarily them, but maybe the way I'm running the plot.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Have you ever thought about running an evil campaign for these guys? They seem to like to kill things to get gold and treasure. Give them a campaign where they'd shine doing that. Have them give you some backgrounds and weave them into a group that has a reason to stick together. This could be common goals, they could be part of the same evil organization, or they could be forced into doing things by an evil overlord that they'd eventually have to take down.

Another idea I have for an "evil" campaign is turning the world upside down. The characters are evil and most of the rest of the world is evil as well with a few very small pockets of "good" trying to fight a losing war of attrition. It's your characters job to seek out and destroy these last bastions of good. Along the way they will battle other evil NPCs for wealth, power, and reputation. Evil kills for any reason whatsoever that suits their fancy.

Just a few ideas, take em or leave em.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Other times one person goes through, and because there is a danger, the others wont follow, the lack of team work tends to cause this one player (I like how he is the one who tends to take risks) to be mauled horrifically by an encounter the group could easily defeat.

My first thought is that next time the group refuses to back this guy up, let him find a mound of treasure. Even if there was a den of monsters, change it so you reward heroic behavior.

You might also want to sit down and talk to them and see what expectations they have. From the sounds of things, they might not mind being railroaded. Playing a team of mercenaries might work well. Each week somebody shows up and says "we'll give you X gold to take care of X problem."

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I understand your frustration. I enjoy running heroic campaigns. My players understand that I enjoy that and play under that assumption because they enjoy my game. I've even had a table rule for most of my time running the game that evil-aligned PCs were not allowed and any PC voluntarily swinging over to the 'dark side' automatically becomes an NPC. I haven't had to invoke this "rule" as my players understand and accept my style. And they know that the hooks I throw out call for heroism and they much prefer taking those hooks than wandering about caves looking for things to kill.

That said, my style is not going to be enjoyable for everyone. If the DMs tastes are too far out of line with his players and neither will have fun playing the other's style, then a split might be in order. I wouldn't enjoy running a game of D&D with a bunch of cowardly low-life characters, nor would I want to play along side such characters. But if the majority of a group enjoyed roleplaying that type of PC, then I would most likely bow out.

 

[Derren]

Well, imo "Heroism" most of the time means "being stupid but surviving anyway".

But thats beside the point.
The problem with this group seems to be not that they are big chickens (well, maybe its a part of the problem) but that they don't seem to be invested in either their characters or the game world. And without any form of motivation why should they take any risks?

 

[Cor Azer]

Definitely talk to your players and see what they want out of the game.

And remember that your enjoyment is just as important as theirs, so if you don't want to run the type of game they want to play, don't be pressured.

 

[DragonLancer]

I'd recommend sitting them down outside the game and just say that you are not enjoying the game right now and politely explain why. See if you and your players cannot come to so middle ground. It may be that they want a completely different type of game than you are willing to run (you have to enjoy the game as well) and it might be better to try and find another group for both you and them.

Good luck.

 

[Dausuul]

I very much want to take the view 'your character is your own, take your own routs' but this is becoming slightly un-fun for me.

Rule the first: If the game is un-fun for the DM, there is a Problem and Something Needs To Change. There's this weird idea that's been floating around the past few years that the DM needs to just provide whatever the players are looking for, regardless of his or her own preferences; I think this idea is a load of... well, let's just say I think it's a massive overreaction to authoritarian DMing styles.

There are a couple ways you can address this. One is to come up with 3-4 ideas for campaigns you would like to run. For each one, prepare a short description of what the campaign would be like and what it would involve. "This campaign would be set in an ice age world, and your PCs would be on a quest to find an artifact to preserve their homeland from the advancing ice." "This campaign would have your characters be servants of an evil power trying to free itself from centuries of imprisonment." Et cetera. Then let the players choose which campaign they want to play, with the understanding that they will create PCs who are motivated to pursue the stated plot.

Another approach is to put the pressure on. They aren't biting on plot hooks? Then stop using plot hooks and bring on the plot shark instead. Nothing gets a bunch of apathetic PCs motivated like having the bad guys come after them, personally. Be sure to drop some clues for them to follow up on, and be prepared for their initial reaction to be, "Let's skip town." This reaction is reasonable and should buy them some time, but make it clear that it's only a temporary reprieve until the bad guys pick up their trail. At which point, in the words of Aragorn, "They will come on you in the wild, in some dark place where there is no help."

Whatever you do, I strongly recommend having the players plan out their party together, so that each PC has ties to at least one other PC and preferably more than one. This does wonders to keep the party from disintegrating, and makes your life easier since you don't have to find ways of motivating each individual PC.

 

[Morrus]

Yeah, this is a case of sayingf to them "Hey, guys, I'm asking for a little co-operation here. I'm new to this, and it would great if you made things easy for me for now."

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I also agree with everyone here who has been posting to talk to your players and make sure they all understand what you are trying to get out of the game as well. If you are the DM and willing to run the game they need to be understanding to what kind of game is fun to you as well. I always think that open communication between the DM and his/her players is essential to running a great campaign and having a boat-load of fun. Try to come up with some kind of compromise that everyone can agree on and set sail for high adventure that way!