Law vs Chaos

[Evilhalfling]

hmm. My ideas seem to revolve around the interactions of nations rather than outsiders. I like the Rome vs. Barbarians analogy - also present in the old hickman and Wies series rose of he prophit. You can have a LG/N nation take over and civilize a CE nation. Teaching them to stop worshiping demons etc. Then slowly twist the situation to show the strong individuallist streak in the conqured people, and their generally honorable nature. The demon hadnt revealed his true nature, so there were many CG/N followers in addition to the CE priests. As the weaker party they try terrorism and gremlining the larger lawful countires government - burning libraries to reduce magical superiority, but making sure the people got out. Chaotic Heros challenging PC's to duels -
Chaotic good outsiders are mostly pranksters or am I remembering this wrong? Im not sure I would want to run them as the chief villians.

I never got the hang of Slaads - there was a thread about them earlier, how mostly they come out evil beserkers. I had some in a recent game that decied to kill the pcs and put them in a wine press to see if they really were 90% water - when the press was destroyed in battle they sat down and pouted. They definatley came across as insane- but as creatures of chaos?
Can creatures of chaos come up with and execute long term plans?

 

[Gez]

My brother's submission to WotC's setting search featured a setting with a Law-vs.-Chaos conflict. The lawful side (humans, halflings, dwarves, hobgoblins, kobolds) was centered around the Solar Empire, while the chaotic side (elves, gnomes, orcs, bugbears, ogres, feys) lived in the Twilight Kingdoms.

The principle was that the Sun was the instrument of Law, while stars were of Chaos. In regions controlled by lawful people, the day was brighter, but nights were dark and stars were colorless. In regions controlled by chaotic people, days were gloomy but nights were brightly (as a full moon) illuminated by stars of all colors of the rainbow.

Also, the Solar Empire and its civilization was about cities and plains covered by farmlands and grazelands. Nature in lawful regions is to be tamed and dominated, transformed into something that is controllable. Twilight Kingdoms were much more diversified -- forests, swamps, deserts, etc. As the Empire conquers Kingdoms, trees are cut, bogs are dried up, deserts are irrigated, bringing everything into a repetitive, homogenous harmony.

 

[ARandomGod]

Other books with a strong Law/chaos.

Modesette (A large series actually all about law and chaose as forces)

Chalker (well of souls)

Mikey Zucker Reichert (Renshai series, I think this one is very good for the stated goals, this series is also largely law/chaos and not good/evil)

Zelazny's Amber.

But, in general, here are some good thoughts to consider

1) Law is an aspect of chaos. Chaos, by it's nature, has many randomnesses within it, and those also encompass bits of order, randomly. Law is born out of chaos.

2) Law is structure and order, very important to life. Chaos is change and creativity, very imporant to evolution of life and idea's.

3) Law without chaos leads to stagnation (lack of change) and death.

4) Chaos without law leads to dissolution (uncontrolled change) and death.

Too much law in an area will lead to eventual stagnation, new ideas will be shot down or suppressed, new tech won't happen. Too much law in life removes evolutionary changes. Too much chaos has the opposite effect. There are many changes, and many of those are non-viable. The majority of poossible changes are non-viable or destructive, so there has to be some controll, some structure. A strong lawful nation stops growing spiritually and intellectually, inevitably leads to oppression.

In general if you want a *good*, epic law vs chaos campaign the hero's have to be on the side of chaos. Because too much chaos can't put up a good fight. But too much law... there's the basis for a strong empire, a powerful enemy.

 

[ARandomGod]

In general if you want a *good*, epic law vs chaos campaign the hero's have to be on the side of chaos. Because too much chaos can't put up a good fight. But too much law... there's the basis for a strong empire, a powerful enemy.

You could probably pull off a good law vs chaos with the characters being on the side of law, but I see that as harder... and espeically as harder to remove from the good/evil axis.