Weregrognard
First Post
As someone who got into D&D during the 2e era and its many worlds, I vote for LESS settings and MORE info on making your own setting. I may be in the minority here, though 
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Let's Forget the Forgotten Realms
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
Mortellan
Explorer
As someone who got into D&D during the 2e era and its many worlds, I vote for LESS settings and MORE info on making your own setting. I may be in the minority here, though
Good post. Slightly off topic. It got me thinking. You don't need spend money on a generic book on how to design worlds when you got the published ones to use for examples. If that's not good enough, nonfiction books always worked for me when designing realisitc maps or nations. These days there's wikipedia and so on.
Viva Greyhawk!
OpsKT
Explorer
If I'm not going to just make my own setting for a fantasy RPG (regalrdless of rules sets) I am most fond of Eberron. I've run it under v3.5, 4e, and have converted it to Savage Worlds.
If they want to unify the player base, however, they need a setting that is 'Kitchen Sink' or 'Everything to most Everyone' and for that, either Greyhawk or Mystara would do best. Forgotten Realms is, while popular, somewhat limiting due to the meta-history attached to it. While Greyhawk and Mystara also have their histories, they are not near as fleshed out as the novel lines have done for the recent history of the Realms.
That is why I think it should be one of those two. If not, I will not even look at D&D5 until they release the Eberron books for it, if ever.
If they want to unify the player base, however, they need a setting that is 'Kitchen Sink' or 'Everything to most Everyone' and for that, either Greyhawk or Mystara would do best. Forgotten Realms is, while popular, somewhat limiting due to the meta-history attached to it. While Greyhawk and Mystara also have their histories, they are not near as fleshed out as the novel lines have done for the recent history of the Realms.
That is why I think it should be one of those two. If not, I will not even look at D&D5 until they release the Eberron books for it, if ever.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
*quietly mumbles something about Mystara from the corner*
I was going to put these comments in last night, but opted out when we had a nasty thunderstorm start to roll through. Some of those thoughts have already been touched upon previously in the thread, but I'll try to make them articulate:
1) As an IP line other than M:tG, the Forgotten Realms is probably the most valuable asset that WotC has. This must be accounted for in any planning & discussion.
2) Due to the extensive publishing about the Realms (through novels, computer games, and RPG products), there exists a sizable number of gamers (myself included) who feel as though there is no room for making it one's own. Said differently, I would not choose to run a game in the Realms because the odds of somebody telling me "No, it's not like that" are perceived to be extremely high.
3) I concur that at least one initial setting needs to be fairly generic, with lots and lots and lots and lots and lots (have I made my point yet?) of room for people to feel free to wander around in it without worrying about being told their wrong. From my BECMI/2E/4E brainspace, there appear to be 3 settings that I think could fit the bill:
3A) I'm just too young to have had any real exposure to Greyhawk, but the gamers I know who are enough older than I am to have played in it tell me that it fits the bill here
3B) As somebody noted above, I think that Mystara, possibly with a bit of rejiggering to make things feel slightly more coherent, would fit the bill quite well.
3C) If it could survive the transition from 4E, I think the Nentir Vale would also work.
(Note: my gaming is on hiatus, so I know absolutely nothing about Golarian other than that it's the setting for Pathfinder.)
4) The part of me that grew up in the 2E era appreciates the plethora of worlds released during that time, even if some were better than others. To that end, I'd like to see at least some support for more than the default setting. I think the 4E model was close, but that Campaign Guide / Creature Catalog / tile set / 3 adventures (rather than 1) would come closer to the mark.
I'm not sure what the reality is of the status for the Dragonlance IP (who owns it, what pieces are licensed elsewhere, etc.) I agree that it's got the library present to support an introduction to gaming. Dark Sun can capture the post-apoc vibe, especially if allowed to really push some of the things I remember the 2E boxed set trying very hard for (e.g., playing up the defiler/preserver split and the possibility for any political message that might be present). Of the other major lines I recall from the 2E era that haven't already been mentioned, Spelljammer is too niche; I don't believe that Birthright covers a sufficiently broad spectrum of play; Planescape needs the foundation of at least one more setting to build upon (IMO); and I don't know enough about either Council of Wyrms or Red Steel to contribute usefully to the discussion.
1) As an IP line other than M:tG, the Forgotten Realms is probably the most valuable asset that WotC has. This must be accounted for in any planning & discussion.
2) Due to the extensive publishing about the Realms (through novels, computer games, and RPG products), there exists a sizable number of gamers (myself included) who feel as though there is no room for making it one's own. Said differently, I would not choose to run a game in the Realms because the odds of somebody telling me "No, it's not like that" are perceived to be extremely high.
3) I concur that at least one initial setting needs to be fairly generic, with lots and lots and lots and lots and lots (have I made my point yet?) of room for people to feel free to wander around in it without worrying about being told their wrong. From my BECMI/2E/4E brainspace, there appear to be 3 settings that I think could fit the bill:
3A) I'm just too young to have had any real exposure to Greyhawk, but the gamers I know who are enough older than I am to have played in it tell me that it fits the bill here
3B) As somebody noted above, I think that Mystara, possibly with a bit of rejiggering to make things feel slightly more coherent, would fit the bill quite well.
3C) If it could survive the transition from 4E, I think the Nentir Vale would also work.
(Note: my gaming is on hiatus, so I know absolutely nothing about Golarian other than that it's the setting for Pathfinder.)
4) The part of me that grew up in the 2E era appreciates the plethora of worlds released during that time, even if some were better than others. To that end, I'd like to see at least some support for more than the default setting. I think the 4E model was close, but that Campaign Guide / Creature Catalog / tile set / 3 adventures (rather than 1) would come closer to the mark.
I'm not sure what the reality is of the status for the Dragonlance IP (who owns it, what pieces are licensed elsewhere, etc.) I agree that it's got the library present to support an introduction to gaming. Dark Sun can capture the post-apoc vibe, especially if allowed to really push some of the things I remember the 2E boxed set trying very hard for (e.g., playing up the defiler/preserver split and the possibility for any political message that might be present). Of the other major lines I recall from the 2E era that haven't already been mentioned, Spelljammer is too niche; I don't believe that Birthright covers a sufficiently broad spectrum of play; Planescape needs the foundation of at least one more setting to build upon (IMO); and I don't know enough about either Council of Wyrms or Red Steel to contribute usefully to the discussion.
Rule Number 1 of Settings > Never cut the authors off at the knees. There are several authors writing stories that generate a good revenue stream for WotC. Simply telling them that there is no more need for their services will not help the bottom line and it is the authors that are often the first point of contact for gamers to the hobby.
Rule Number 2 of Setting > Never let the authors kill your setting. This almost happened in the Dark Sun world with the story resulting in the death of the sole dragon on the planet. It is hard to take the story forward from that point. The same happened with Dragonlance after the God of Chaos and the Five Great Dragons were brought into the game.
Rule Number 3 of Setting > Never alter the world so badly that it reduces your audience. Forgotten Realms has suffered a couple of major problems (Time of Troubles, the Spell Plague) making it almost a fresh setting. If you ever feel the need to alter a setting this amount it is time to consider a fresh setting. Invite fresh characters and writing to explore and develop this world. There are always plenty of authors willing to fill in a new world with new challenges rather then constantly check they are not stepping on someones toes.
Rule Number 2 of Setting > Never let the authors kill your setting. This almost happened in the Dark Sun world with the story resulting in the death of the sole dragon on the planet. It is hard to take the story forward from that point. The same happened with Dragonlance after the God of Chaos and the Five Great Dragons were brought into the game.
Rule Number 3 of Setting > Never alter the world so badly that it reduces your audience. Forgotten Realms has suffered a couple of major problems (Time of Troubles, the Spell Plague) making it almost a fresh setting. If you ever feel the need to alter a setting this amount it is time to consider a fresh setting. Invite fresh characters and writing to explore and develop this world. There are always plenty of authors willing to fill in a new world with new challenges rather then constantly check they are not stepping on someones toes.
Nivenus
First Post
To be perfectly honest, the main reason I like FR is the same reason I like Star Wars: I played some pretty cool CRPGs set in the universe and so became interested in the IP.
Of course, to a certain extent, that's just the root reason. The reason I stuck with both settings long after NWN2 and KotOR had passed by is because both are massive, sprawling settings that, while at time continuity-intensive - something I don't really see as a problem - are also capable of telling most of any kind of story within their respective genre you can think of.
To this degree, I see FR's "everything but the kitchen sink" approach as a strength, not a weakness. While I don't like everything in FR, there's quite a lot of things I do like and I can do all kinds of things with them as a DM with relatively little messing around.
If I want to run a medieval fantasy? Cormyr. If I want a planar adventure? The FR cosmology is detailed enough to let me do that. Does one of my player wants to play a dwarf or an elf? Easy. Do they want to play something more exotic, like a tiefling? Fully supported since 3rd edition.
Point is, FR isn't just generic fantasy - that's a large part of it - probably the biggest part - but it's not the heart of it. The truth is that it's simply too big to be pinned down that way. And that's what I like about the setting.
EDIT: In regards to the original poster's point about Greyhawk, I more or less agree. I'd be fine with keeping Nentir Vale, but I think Greyhawk, to a certain extent, makes more sense to bring back, given the long history and nostalgia surrounding it. Plus, as Gygax's original setting, it kind of seems a shame to put it out to pasture.
Of course, to a certain extent, that's just the root reason. The reason I stuck with both settings long after NWN2 and KotOR had passed by is because both are massive, sprawling settings that, while at time continuity-intensive - something I don't really see as a problem - are also capable of telling most of any kind of story within their respective genre you can think of.
To this degree, I see FR's "everything but the kitchen sink" approach as a strength, not a weakness. While I don't like everything in FR, there's quite a lot of things I do like and I can do all kinds of things with them as a DM with relatively little messing around.
If I want to run a medieval fantasy? Cormyr. If I want a planar adventure? The FR cosmology is detailed enough to let me do that. Does one of my player wants to play a dwarf or an elf? Easy. Do they want to play something more exotic, like a tiefling? Fully supported since 3rd edition.
Point is, FR isn't just generic fantasy - that's a large part of it - probably the biggest part - but it's not the heart of it. The truth is that it's simply too big to be pinned down that way. And that's what I like about the setting.
EDIT: In regards to the original poster's point about Greyhawk, I more or less agree. I'd be fine with keeping Nentir Vale, but I think Greyhawk, to a certain extent, makes more sense to bring back, given the long history and nostalgia surrounding it. Plus, as Gygax's original setting, it kind of seems a shame to put it out to pasture.
Falstaff
First Post
Looks like WotC is listening to you Morrus:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Greenwood-Presents-Elminsters-Forgotten-Realms/dp/0786960345/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I9614YTI0BMFG&colid=88MQKIY8D20H]Amazon.com: Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms: A Dungeons & Dragons Supplement (9780786960347): Wizards RPG Team: Books[/ame]
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Greenwood-Presents-Elminsters-Forgotten-Realms/dp/0786960345/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I9614YTI0BMFG&colid=88MQKIY8D20H]Amazon.com: Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms: A Dungeons & Dragons Supplement (9780786960347): Wizards RPG Team: Books[/ame]
Sammael
Adventurer
Whatever this is, I just preordered it.
Hopefully, this will be an edition-neutral book full of fluffy goodness.
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
I created a re-arranged Mystara map, moving nations around to have them fit a better cultural coherency. I should brush them off and put them on my deviantArt gallery . . .
