Let's speculate about the future of gaming with the iPad.

[Steel_Wind]

Distractions, distractions...

The distraction factor is a little oversold, in my experience.

The argument goes like this: I'm running a game and one of my players, instead of paying attention to the game, is checking e-mail or surfing the web. Laptops are a distraction at the gaming table. Same applies to smart phones and blackberries. A pox on all their houses. Ban them from the gaming table!

I am sure we have all experienced this from time to time both at the gaming table and in other contexts. I know that I am frequently interrupted during meetings with clients or at a discovery where there are witnesses and parties who are checking their Blackberries when they ought to be concentrating on the matters before them. The same complaints arise from interruption at dinner and while on a date, too.

While I suppose all of this may be true, I think, in fairness, the technology is not really to blame. The Golden Thread running through all of these instances, be it at a client meeting, at a discovery/deposition, at dinner, on a date or at the gaming table is that the person involved is acting in a churlish manner. In all cases, the fault lies not with the technology, but with the person who is using it.

Most especially when it comes to a game, the fault might also be spread not simply to the impolite surfer/ e-mail checker, but potentially to the GM who perhaps isn't running a game that is quite as captivating as it ought to be.

In any event, I do think that while the problem is a widespread complaint in all manner of social and business situations, the ultimate responsibility for the problem lies not with the technology, but with the user of that technology.

Don't blame the laptop or the smart phone for your acting like a jerk.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Yep...exactly.

I want people sitting up and playing without barriers between them or their minis. I want everyone focussed and facing one another and ENGAGED in a tabletop RPG-From Steel Wind.

 

[Umbran]

In any event, I do think that while the problem is a widespread complaint in all manner of social and business situations, the ultimate responsibility for the problem lies not with the technology, but with the user of that technology.

Yes... and no. The tech isn't exactly unbiased - it was designed for a purpose, and that purpose may be contrary to what's going on at the table.

Humans are prone to distraction, period. If the technology is specifically designed to play to our predilection for short attention spans, I think it is quite reasonable to blame that design, rather than the person.

In the end, if your choices are to attempt to change the person, ditch the person from the table, or ditch the tech from the table - it is by no means unreasonable to banish the tech.

 

[Steel_Wind]

In the end, if your choices are to attempt to change the person, ditch the person from the table, or ditch the tech from the table - it is by no means unreasonable to banish the tech.

So if I have six players, all who have laptops at the table, five of which use them responsibly and one of which does not, it is reasonable for me to ban the use of laptops at the table, carte blanche?

It's reasonable to punish five others for the conduct of a sixth?

I cannot agree with this; that is our point of departure.

 

[Janx]

Tech at the table touches on several problems, as Steel Wind covered.

Outright banning it, is the "Cranky Old Guy" solution. Every other IT shop has one, he's the guy who's been there forever, and he wants to block every website and port, and lockdown all the PCs, so people would just focus on the work.

While the COG has some valid points, his solution is so knee-jerky and extreme, it throws out the baby with the bathwater. it shuts down innovation and new possibilities.

In the past, I've had to ban Magic cards at the table, as one player attempted to use my game time as trading sessions. I've had to ban gameboys, as my wife would fiddle with it during other people's scenes (and thus not be ready for when things shifted). I also don't allow the TV to be on in the same room. it was pretty obvious to spot the item and see the distraction.

With smart phones and laptops's multi-function capability, it's a bit harder to tell what's legitimate and unlegitimate use sometimes. I would not outright ban them though, but ban specific bad behaviors.

I don't play with children, so when I say everybody should be focused on the game, no non-game related tech-fiddling, I expect that to be the last of it, because my adult players understand why that behavior isn't welcome.

It's still pretty obvious who's texting, who's facebooking, etc on these devices, so the problem is relatively easy to police, especially when it's causing a problem, because that's the player who isn't paying attention.

 

[guivre]

The lack of multi-tasking must be an issue; you can't use a PDF and then rolla dice on a die roller and then check a treasure generation app, then go back to your initiative tracker. It's one of them only.

But the iPhone 4.0 firmware has multitasking, so it can't be far off for the iPad.

'

Uh.. yeah you can, even without 4.0. Correctly written apps save state between switching.

It may not switch as quickly as you might like, which will change with 4.0, but that scenario is more than possible. I leave apps to go to another task and return to where I was on both the iPhone and IPad.

 

[Umbran]

It's reasonable to punish five others for the conduct of a sixth?

That's up to the five, now isn't it? They lose some quick reference. They gain more attention and engagement from one of their number. That might well be worth it.

Consider the current laptop and iPad discussions here - hardly unanimous on the subject of allowing electronics at the table. That suggests to me that there are hundreds of thousands of people out there happily gaming without them.

Given that loads of people are having a jolly good time without the machines, it doesn't sound like much of a punishment.

 

[Janx]

That's up to the five, now isn't it? They lose some quick reference. They gain more attention and engagement from one of their number. That might well be worth it.

Consider the current laptop and iPad discussions here - hardly unanimous on the subject of allowing electronics at the table. That suggests to me that there are hundreds of thousands of people out there happily gaming without them.

Given that loads of people are having a jolly good time without the machines, it doesn't sound like much of a punishment.

I gotta say, this is COG thinking. The COG's always cite "it's been working this way just fine for years" as justification for not allowing new ways onto the table.

Odds are good, I'd be one of the five, and if a GM said my method of carrying my charsheet and books was unacceptable because of some other bad player, I'd walk. Now you're down 1 behaved player, and you're stuck with a known misbehaver.

I usually keep my laptop screen tilted down (not closed, or it'll auto-sleep), so I can see the table. Thus it's also obvious when I am looking something up for the game or character. if a GM finds that to be a problem, there's something wrong with the GM's priorities.

I've been using computers to help with gaming tasks since 1990 on my own custom Apple IIe software. I ain't gonna stop because of some COG.

 

[Umbran]

I gotta say, this is COG thinking.

Thank you for labeling my thoughts.

The COG's always cite "it's been working this way just fine for years" as justification for not allowing new ways onto the table.

*shrug*. I don't care about "new ways". New in and of itself means nothing. I care about better ways. I adopt things at the table when I think they'll actually improve the game experience, not just when they are new.

Odds are good, I'd be one of the five, and if a GM said my method of carrying my charsheet and books was unacceptable because of some other bad player, I'd walk.

Again, I shrug. That's your choice. I think your flat refusal there is as inflexible as the COG's you rail against, and I'm not likely to work too hard to keep an inflexible player.

Mind you, the scenario would not have played out in this fashion with me to begin with - as I'd not have had a bunch of folks at the table only to find one misbehaves. We'd have started from a "no laptops" condition, and if someone was having a hard time so that they really wanted the laptop, I'd consider the exception for the one player.

I've been using computers to help with gaming tasks since 1990 on my own custom Apple IIe software. I ain't gonna stop because of some COG.

If my players think of me as a label first, and a friend and gaming buddy second... well, I don't need them much at the table. Thanks.

 

[Janx]

Thank you for labeling my thoughts.



*shrug*. I don't care about "new ways". New in and of itself means nothing. I care about better ways. I adopt things at the table when I think they'll actually improve the game experience, not just when they are new.



Again, I shrug. That's your choice. I think your flat refusal there is as inflexible as the COG's you rail against, and I'm not likely to work too hard to keep an inflexible player.

Mind you, the scenario would not have played out in this fashion with me to begin with - as I'd not have had a bunch of folks at the table only to find one misbehaves. We'd have started from a "no laptops" condition, and if someone was having a hard time so that they really wanted the laptop, I'd consider the exception for the one player.



If my players think of me as a label first, and a friend and gaming buddy second... well, I don't need them much at the table. Thanks.

Well, I apologize for labeling your thoughts.

My reason for bailing would be that other than prohibiting me from using your electricity at your house, you don't have the fundamental right to dictate what kind of instrument I use to record and manage my character sheet and game books.

Assuming I am following the game rules, not impeding game play, and providing an accurate and legible account of my character, that's all you got a right to as a GM. If you want to limit what races, or books I use, that's a game rule policy and I have no problem.

I'm not certain I would make a big deal about it. I can play with paper just fine (well, not really, my printer hasn't had ink for years). It's the principle of the idea that the GM gets to dictate what tools I use outsude of the rules of the game.

The issue is Players Rights vs. GM's Rights, akin to States Rights vs. Federal Rights (excepting the whole slavery and tea party scope of things).

Furthermore, I would not accept a paper-bound GM to be competent to consider how technology he refuses to use would enhance MY process to play the game. That's for me to decide, and the only way I can discern that is to try it (which I have, and I've flip-flopped several times, as I try different solutions).

I certainly respect the GMs concern that my solution is adding more problems for him and the other players. But ultimately, that may be for a group discussion, not the GM solely. It may depend on the nature of the solution, as to whether it impacts the game itself, or the people and group (imagine if I brought a 30" monitor and set it on the table for me to use, but otherwise I'm well behaved.

Basically, I would be wary at a table that the GM dictates what solutions I may use for my process of managing my business, regardless of whether I would actually use one of the prohibitted solutions. It's the principle of the thing.

If you apply what I just said to in-game solutions, that would be a definite sign of a bad GM.