D&D 5E Let's talk power words!

[dave2008]

I went with 200. That seemed to be the point at which an uninjured creatures with 201 points surviving seemed about right. Using a CR list sorted by hp.

Its arbitrary, but the list of creatures above the line fits my idea of shaking off an instant kill.

However, to [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION]'s point, when used against the PCs that is instant death for most, if not, any of them. Good idea to think about it both ways.

 

[CapnZapp]

Power Word: XXX

Shush! This is a family-friendly forum!

 

[CapnZapp]

So Power Word: Kill would be "If at any point between now and the beginning of the caster's next turn the target's HP falls below 100, then the target immediately dies with no save.

Your word of power sets up a vibration within the target, lasting until the end of its next turn. If the target is at 150 hit points or less at any moment during the duration, it is instantly slain.

As you can see Schmoe and Dave are variations on the same idea.

While most (all?) existing spells use until your next turn (and the start or end thereof), for Power Words I think it could be interesting to change things up a bit. Until monster's end of turn means it really makes a difference how many allies go before the monster (but still after you). But mostly serve to keep the duration really short.

Short, but still long enough to get a reprieve from the equivalence of "pixel bitching" for hit points. Depending on the initiative list, you can chance using the spell even if you're not sure the monster is low enough, if you have an ally or three to plink it down before it gets to act.

In return we do enter the initiative mini game. The big difference is that initiative is a known quantity. Unlike hit points, you can reasonably assume the caster player knows how many allies will have time to act in-between herself and the target monster.

But in summary: we use a different mechanic partly to give Power Word spells a different mechanical texture, but mostly to get a duration shorter than an entire round while still longer than the raw version - a duration of "zero to all allies, depending".

 

[dave2008]

As you can see Schmoe and Dave are variations on the same idea.

While most (all?) existing spells use until your next turn (and the start or end thereof), for Power Words I think it could be interesting to change things up a bit. Until monster's end of turn means it really makes a difference how many allies go before the monster (but still after you). But mostly serve to keep the duration really short.

Short, but still long enough to get a reprieve from the equivalence of "pixel bitching" for hit points. Depending on the initiative list, you can chance using the spell even if you're not sure the monster is low enough, if you have an ally or three to plink it down before it gets to act.

In return we do enter the initiative mini game. The big difference is that initiative is a known quantity. Unlike hit points, you can reasonably assume the caster player knows how many allies will have time to act in-between herself and the target monster.

But in summary: we use a different mechanic partly to give Power Word spells a different mechanical texture, but mostly to get a duration shorter than an entire round while still longer than the raw version - a duration of "zero to all allies, depending".

Interesting. I didn't even realize my version (a rewrite of your version) was actually saying the end of the monster's turn until I re-read it just now. I had intend the end of the caster's turn, but that is not what I wrote. I think it works for the reasons you have already stated.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I've told you repeatedly that I don't think this edition is flawless.

Quick, name 5 flaws of 5th edition. Actually, start a new thread and expound on them at length.
;P

...on to the actual topic...I pulled out these three quotes because they're all suggestive of what the Power Words were, originally, and maybe aren't so much anymore (or are they?):

The spell is useless for player characters.
It shines when an Archmage, say, uses it on level-appropriate heroes.

According to legend, EGG did originally conceive of the higher level spells (6th and up, at minimum) as tools for powerful enemies, and I suppose it shows. So if that's how it shakes out, now? Cool, classic feel ftw.

A single word to potentially drop a weaker target or finish a wounded one is rather convenient. And also, kinda cool.

To me, power words have always been about the casting time: whereas other 9th level spells are slow-casting, power words cast as quick as a first-level spell. But, 5E's default initiative system discards casting times, making power words kind of nicheless

Casting a spell in melee was hard back in the day, heck, casting a spell at all wasn't exactly carefree. You had to be standing still, upright, both hands free, etc and continue that way uninterrupted for, generally, 1 segment/spell level. A segment was six seconds. Think about that, you're going to spend 45 seconds performing a series of gestures so exacting and elaborate that you couldn't perform them if you were wearing leather armor? While someone takes swings at you?

But Power Word Kill is /one word/, so go right ahead and spit that in the face of the first sucker to run up to you (the first one to get through the walls of ice and fire and the prismatic sphere, anyway).

So, if we do want to rehabilitate Power Words, I think the place to look is casting time, and that prettymuch means a bonus action, or maybe even a reaction, to cast it, because it's just one word, right....

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Seeing as the spell is a 9th level spell and cannot even deal with some CR5 creatures (as posted earlier in the thread), and it only gets worse as the CR increases, I would have to call it very niche, at the least. I don't have any statistics, but is revealing the foes current Hit Points supposed to be the standard way to play? I've not see it done that way much, though my experience is anecdotal. I get wanting tamp down the whole LFQW issue, you don't want it to be an "I Win Button" for the player, but not even handling something 10+ CR lower than the party level? You only ever get one of these a day.

So what do you mean when you say “it cannot even deal with some CR5 creatures?”

Do you mean to say it should be able to kill them outright without them being reduced to below their maximum hit points?

I guess that’s a question that needs to be addressed altogether - if you’re not happy with the effectiveness of the spell, what CR should the spell target? That is, creatures of this CR or lower are automatically killed.

Is it the 12 levels of difference? To look at it a different way, how many levels of difference does a fighter need to guarantee a kill in 1 round? Should the spell not be similar?

Somebody better at the math than me will have to figure that out.

As a potential “fix” to the issues people have, how about forcing a system shock check if the creature has more than 100 hit points?

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

Casting a spell in melee was hard back in the day, heck, casting a spell at all wasn't exactly carefree. You had to be standing still, upright, both hands free, etc and continue that way uninterrupted for, generally, 1 segment/spell level. A segment was six seconds. Think about that, you're going to spend 45 seconds performing a series of gestures so exacting and elaborate that you couldn't perform them if you were wearing leather armor? While someone takes swings at you?

But Power Word Kill is /one word/, so go right ahead and spit that in the face of the first sucker to run up to you (the first one to get through the walls of ice and fire and the prismatic sphere, anyway).

So, if we do want to rehabilitate Power Words, I think the place to look is casting time, and that prettymuch means a bonus action, or maybe even a reaction, to cast it, because it's just one word, right....

I think as a bonus action would lend it some real heft and make it much more attractive, for sure.

Just to add to its advantages - as word, even unchanged, it can be used while constrained (I'm sure there's one caster who didn't take Misty Step for.. some hipster reason) or while climbing. Granted, these are rather niche 'pros' for a 9th level spell.

It can also be themed as an the mother of all F-bombs...

 

[Tony Vargas]

Just to add to its advantages - as word, even unchanged, it can be used while constrained or while climbing. Granted, these are rather niche 'pros' for a 9th level spell.

If there were more limitations to casting, in the first place, there could be more ways to illustrate the ease of casting a spell of but a single word.

 

[Gardens & Goblins]

If there were more limitations to casting, in the first place, there could be more ways to illustrate the ease of casting a spell of but a single word.

I do miss the constraints on spell casting. The Mage Slayer feat can make life tricky but.... Even spell most components can be hand waved away with a spell focus.

 

[CapnZapp]

So what do you mean when you say “it cannot even deal with some CR5 creatures?”

Do you mean to say it should be able to kill them outright without them being reduced to below their maximum hit points?

I guess that’s a question that needs to be addressed altogether - if you’re not happy with the effectiveness of the spell, what CR should the spell target? That is, creatures of this CR or lower are automatically killed.

Is it the 12 levels of difference? To look at it a different way, how many levels of difference does a fighter need to guarantee a kill in 1 round? Should the spell not be similar?

Somebody better at the math than me will have to figure that out.

Not Gadget, but if I'm gonna spend my only level 9 slot on a single target spell...

... that target needs to be pretty much taken out of the fight guaranteed. And even then, only if we're facing a true BBEG. Exactly the kind of enemy the spell is the most useless against!

Wasting it on a run-of-the-mill CR 5 mook is a stupendous thought for me. I literally can't think of a single scenario why I would even want to prepare the spell, let alone ever use it.