D&D 3E/3.5 Level conversion between 3.5 and 4E for monsters?

[Cam Banks]

Hey folks,

I'm keen on converting a whole bunch of 3.5 monsters that I created over to 4E, but the big roadblock I keep coming up against is what level to make the 4E version. For those who have been making conversions, what sort of metric do you use to decide this? It's not a direct correlation of Hit Dice or Challenge Rating, since the scale seems to be irregular. The 4E MM just appears to have been designed from the ground up with no real legacy other than "kobolds are the weakest" thing.

But, take the drow for instance. All of the drow in the MM are paragon encounters, even though 3.5 drow could have been any level. This sort of choice was clearly made to settle on various creatures being more suited to a paragon tier of play.

Any suggestions?

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Fieari]

Well, supposedly, level 1 in 4e roughly corresponds to level 3 in 3e, while level 20 in 3e converts to level 30 in 4e. But only sometimes, and this is a rough guide.

 

[FunkBGR]

I've been doing straight conversions. Lvl 1 = Lvl 1, and Lvl 20 = Lvl 20.

21 to 30 seems like the equivalent of Epic to me in the old edition.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

you might find this handy: Immortality

 

[Starfox]

I've been doing straight conversions. Lvl 1 = Lvl 1, and Lvl 20 = Lvl 20.

21 to 30 seems like the equivalent of Epic to me in the old edition.

# Rubberstamp #

This is what I do too.

 

[Cam Banks]

Is that level for level conversion borne out by the MM monsters compared to their 3E counterparts? It seems to me that many paragon threats were less than 10 HD in the last edition.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[FunkBGR]

No, it's not with any actual comparison of a monster from one edition to another.

My guess is that the 4e Team divided potential adventuring areas into different "level ranges" - like, Underdark adventures were typically thought of as being Paragon by the Design Team, so Drow, Mind Flayer and such are all Lvl 11+ or so.

You can see them differ from this to some degree - Thunderspire Labyrinth with it's Duergar, but Thunderspire might not be considered The Underdark proper, or so.

So - I think I answered your question too hastily. What I would do, and have been doing when necessary, is try to find creatures in the MM of a similar "origin" - i.e. if converting Far Realm creatures, I try to find something described as from that area, and keep them relatively around the same level.

In some cases, this won't work - Gates of Firestorm Peak would require lower level Duergar and Far Realm critters. But you can establish a "baseline" I guess.

Hmm, hope that helps. If I think of something a little more helpful, I'll post it.

 

[Cam Banks]

Part of the conversion I'm working on is Dragonlance material. The draconians from the classic modules come in five varieties, hatched from corrupted metallic dragon eggs. There are also good versions, which came from corrupted chromatic eggs, but that's neither here nor there.

The lowest level draconians are the baaz, followed by the stealthy kapak, the spellcasting bozak, the big greatsword-wielding shapeshifting sivak, and finally the aurak, who're a kitchen sink of powers from gaseous form to shapeshifting to energy blasts and so forth.

On the Dragonlance message boards there's been some healthy discussion about the levels these creatures (when used as opponents) should be set at. Many people want them all to be heroic tier, theorizing that you should be able to encounter all five types early on. It's debatable what level the modules would convert to; in 3e, they start at 5th and advance to 13th or 14th. It might make sense to have it start at heroic and cross into paragon for the last stages of the campaign.

The baaz, kapak, and bozak all appeared frequently in the first four modules. It wasn't until the second group of four (which are the same levels as the last third; the party splits up and the second arc and third arc are undertaken more or less at the same time chronologically) that the more powerful sivak and aurak show up.

So going by your theory, I could map baaz, kapak, and bozak over to heroic tier levels (between, say, level 2 and level 8) with the sivak and aurak being paragon (between 11 and 13). The aurak's definitely at least an elite, if not a solo; the sivaks would probably come in standard and elite versions.

In AD&D, all these creatures had less than 10 HD. In 3E, I worked their ECL out to be 3 for baaz, 4 for kapak, 7 for bozak, 10 for sivak, and 12 for aurak. Sound like a reasonable enough baseline?

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

you should check out the link I posted above.

 

[Cam Banks]

you should check out the link I posted above.

I may have not been seeing what you were seeing there. It looked like rules for converting extremely high-level creatures to the epic and post-epic levels for 4E. Was there a section or post on that blog about standard heroic and paragon tier conversions?

Cheers,
Cam