Leveling speed

[Philip]

In my experience PCs in 3e are leveling to quickly using the default XP rewards. I have this experience both as a DM and a player.

Many times I see characters level again before they have actually used a feat, spell, magic item they acquired or a skill they raised since the last time they leveled.

I think leveling again before you have used a significant gain since last time you leveled is rather weird. In my experience many feats, skills and spells also need some time (and many opportunities resulting in failures and successes) to be actually mastered and become familiar with the player and integrated into the character. Now leveling sometimes goes so quickly that I see players forget about many of their abilities and/or fail to use them at an opportune times

What do you all think about the speed of leveling in 3e?

 

[Crothian]

Its fine. Considering the DM has full control over the speed the group levels how could it be anything but?

 

[Philip]

Its fine. Considering the DM has full control over the speed the group levels how could it be anything but?

Well, as I DM I tend to get some flak from my players because they feel under-reward them when I cut down the XP awards below the default ones, even though they are having a great time. I am convinced it is an imagined problem, and I even think they will have less fun when I award default XP.

As a player I must follow the rules of the DM's I play with. For example: when my character gets Baleful Polymorph I think: cool, a new tool! But usually I only succesfully Baleful Polymorph one opponent before my character gets 'better spells' such as Disintegrate and Flesh to Stone. And as time (and levels) go on the chance to make use of the spell diminish even further.

And I just feel plain weird when getting Still Spell and a few levels later choosing another feat like Extend spell without having used Still Spell once.

 

[npiccini]

I agree with Corthian as well. The DM controlls the pace at which the party advances. I have had players in my group on both sides of the arguements. Many of them were echoing the arguements of the first poster on here, namely that they have abilities and feats that they are not even aware of and suddenly they are another level higheer. That led me, as DM, to just hang back and focus the encounters so they are less combat driven and more skills-based. It has now been three playing sessions complete with only one character out of five that has gone up a single level. Some are frustrated, but I think most people in the group are now content that they can explore and master their individual class abilities and feats before they are handed another one.

 

[Glyfair]

I think you have too few options on your poll. Differentiate between slightly too fast and much too fast.

Personally, I'm cutting down rewards so that players stick at levels longer, mostly. However, not by a lot. I know other players who feel it's far too fast and would rather not gain more than one level every couple months in a weekly game.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I guess I'll be with the minority but I think it should be faster. All these rules for high-level play and epic levels and if you follow the XP rules depending of course on the DM you could play for years and never get there. One of the most fun parts of D&D is designing your character and doling out new abilities. For a fun game, you want this to happen pretty often. I'm always disappointed when I make great detailed character builds and it takes too long to get to the abilities I designed my character around.
I recently played a Fatespinner and I'm glad we started off at high levels so that I could take the prestige class. If we'd started at level 1, it could have taken months for my fatespinner to become a Fatespinner.
And, quite frankly, I never DMed XP by the book because I don't buy CRs and ELs. I just hand out XP arbitrarily. I use huge challenges and give out fast XP gains to get the epic adventure feel I want.

That said, the DM of course will always be setting the pace. I just happen to think that the speed the book suggests is slower than the speed I want.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

If you feel they are going up to quickly and they aren't using everything at their disposal, then perhaps they are just too good OR you are making it too easy on them.

The 3E & 3.5E XP chart was setup for a group of 4 character to have to fight 13 & 1/3 creatures with a challenge rating equal to the characters level. This includes for the critters to have full use of items that their treasure may offer.

 

[Hjorimir]

Well, if we're talking "by the book" awards, then I think characters advance too quickly. But, I am not having that problem because I'm stingy enough to slow it down to a rate I'm happier with.

 

[was]

I am not the current DM in the group, this time, but we always halve the xp. None of the group has a problem with it.

 

[jeffh]

Crothian and others, I think you need to distinguish between playing by the book and what goes on in individual campaigns. Of course the GM can fix whatever problems crop up; that doesn't excuse a ruleset that doesn't work well as written (note that I'm not saying the 3E rules are such a one, just making a more general point). If everyone is house-ruling the same thing, chances are the RAW are seriously flawed.

Here's a comment from one of my players, from a game where I used the RAW (I do hope he wouldn't mind me posting it here). I've rewritten the first sentence to make the context clearer, other than that it's his exact words modulo typo corrections.

++++++++++++++++

I'd like the next game to have little or no levelling after character creation. The group takes lots of time levelling. Even after levelling, we keep needing refresher courses in our new powers. By the time we get a good understanding of our powers and their implications and limitations, we level and get new ones.

With little or no levelling, we get a good feel for our own characters, and
we have the time to get a feel for the capabilities of the other characters
in the group (whose powers also aren't changing every few games.)

With the better feel for the skills and powers of the other characters in
the group, we could plot group strategies better, and better support each
other in battle.

++++++++++++++++++

Cutting it down by a third seems to have cut down on the problem significantly, though the new game is still a lot lower-level than that one was at the time he made those comments.