Liches and their unarmed attacks.

[Joker]

Since the "unarmed" attack a lich has, uses negative energy, does that mean that he can heal him/herself d8+5 pts. of dmg. per round?

Thx in advance.

Tata.

 

[Joker]

Now that I'm on the topic of liches, I have a q about the phylactery.

Is 120000gp the market price (this would seem more probable since a magic item with a market price of a 120k costs 4800xp), and thus "only" costing 60k?

Or is the 120k the real amount you must pay?

Thx, see ya.

Tata.

 

[Darkness]

Damaging touch can't be used to heal the lich just because it uses negative energy. Otherwise, an undead cleric could also heal himself with rebuke undead, LOL.

And I agree that 120k ought to be the phylactery's "market" price.

 

[James McMurray]

Darkness, I could see where that would be a good rational if rebuking actually did any damage. Since it doesn't, there's no way to translat that into healing for undead. The only kind of negative energy that heals undead is the same kind that damages normal people, i.e. inflict spells, harm, and attacks which specifically state they deal negative energy damage.

I'd have to say that yes, a lich can heal himself every round. If he's willing to take the off-hand attack penalty, he could even do it more than his base attack would allow, by smacking himself with his secondary hand as well.

Sure, it may sound overpowering, but I guarantee that in a situation where a lich is going to find himself in need of healing, he'll want more than a few d8. It'd be great for after a battle though, or if he can escape momentarily.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Ask yourself this:

If the Lich casts Vampiric Touch, does he deal damage to himself equal to the spell damage?

The obvious answer is no, therfore the Lich can't just heal himself by Laying on Hands.


Just because the damage that he inflicts is negative energy damage doesn't mean that it heals undead. There is no special note under his description stating that his touch heals undead, nor is there a note under the general description of undead saying that negative energy always heals them, it simply states that it can.

If you want to house rule it, then go ahead.

 

[hong]

Now that I'm on the topic of liches, I have a q about the phylactery.

Is 120000gp the market price (this would seem more probable since a magic item with a market price of a 120k costs 4800xp), and thus "only" costing 60k?

Or is the 120k the real amount you must pay?

Thx, see ya.

Tata.

"The phylactery costs 120,000 gp and 4,800 XP to create" [MM p.217]. It's pretty clear that it costs 120,000 gp.

As to why the gp and XP costs don't match up, it could be that the 120,000 gp includes 60,000 gp of "mundane" raw materials and 60,000 gp worth of arcane components. Only the latter would count towards calculating the XP cost. There is a precedent for this -- if you look at the costs to create magic weapons, for example, the masterwork price doesn't count towards the XP cost.

 

[Darklone]

ugh

Creatures are usually immune to their own attacks (well ok, gaze attacks). That's why I would say, wights can not heal themselves either. But since a lich or wight or vampire or whatever consists of something infused with negative energy, why should he be able to heal himself, e.g. infuse himself with more neg. energy?

 

[Voadam]

From the srd creature overview section:

Undead

Undead with no Intelligence scores cannot heal damage on their own, though they can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict wounds spell) can heal undead creatures.

from the srd on lich templates:

Damage: Creatures without natural weapons gain a touch attack that uses negative energy to deal 1d8+5 points of damage to living creatures; a Will save with a DC of 10 + 1/2 lich’s HD + lich’s Charisma modifier reduces the damage by half.

from the srd on inflict light wounds:

When laying the character's hand upon a creature, the character channels negative energy that deals 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (up to +5).

Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures them of a like amount of damage, rather than harming them.

There seems to be nothing to say that the touch attack operates differently from an inflict light wounds.

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

There seems to be nothing to say that the touch attack operates differently from an inflict light wounds.

There's nothing to say that the touch attack operates differently from a Melf's Acid Arrow either . The fact that it is not named "Inflict Light Wounds" is enough to indicate that it is not an Inflict Light Wounds spell.

I guess we better start our fights by casting "Negative Energy Protection" on the Lich eh? Otherwise he's going to scurry off and heal himself! Could a lich Mind Flayer grapple his own head with all 4 tentacles to heal 4d8+20 points a round?

Anyway, I'd bet anything Skip would rule against this (but provide a very unsatisfying reason). I'd be inclined to let the Lich's get away with it; though only d8+5 a round max. They're supposed to be pretty tough.

 

[Voadam]

There's nothing to say that the touch attack operates differently from a Melf's Acid Arrow either . The fact that it is not named "Inflict Light Wounds" is enough to indicate that it is not an Inflict Light Wounds spell.

Sure there is, Melf's doesn't say it uses negative energy. Melf's therefore can't heal generic undead.

The undead description says they can be healed by negative energy such as an inflict spell.

The inflict uses negative energy and says it heals undead because it uses negative energy.

The lich touch attack uses negative energy.

The listing of inflict spells seems to be an example, not a limitation on what can heal undead.