Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
Technically, most of the Archdevils and Demon Lords have been considered deities since 1e's Deities & Demigods.
List of monsters confirmed in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes
Technically, most of the Archdevils and Demon Lords have been considered deities since 1e's Deities & Demigods.
I mean Greater Gods, Asmodeaus isn't a demigod or quasigod, but a full Greater God.
Demetrios1453
Hero
Then he goes on to say that if you wanted to pit the demon princes and the archdevils against each other, you can have them "all in one book", which just muddies the waters further...
If they do exclude some of the archdevils, what criteria would they use to separate those who get in and those who are left out? The only obvious one is to leave out Asmodeus since he's now something more than an archdevil, but that sill leaves 9 more layer rulers plus the two non-rulers we already know are in the book (Geryon and Moloch). But if they are going to reprint the eight demon princes from OotA, then printing 11 - 12 archdevils really isn't that extravagant. I do worry about how much real estate all these will take out of the page total for the bestiary section though, since, if the OotA stat blocks are anything to go by, all the demon princes and archdevils will eat up two pages each. Unless they somehow shrink that package, we're talking about 40 pages or more (out of the 130 or so in the bestiary) dedicated solely to them. And that if they don't add in a further demon prince or two like Pazuzu or Kostchtchie...
EDIT. Thinking on it, they could skip Levistus as well, since he's pretty well inaccessible within his huge block of ice...
Last edited:
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Yeah I just commented on that a short bit ago.
For fun I decided to look at all the Arch Devils in the first 2 monster manuals. As these are the ones with the best chance of making it in.
MM1
Asmodeus (King of Hell)
Baalzebul (Archduke)
Dispater (Archduke)
Geryon (Archduke)
MM2
Amon (Duke)
Bael (Duke)
Belial (Archduke)
Glasya (Princess of Hell)
Hutijin (Duke)
Mammon (Archduke)
Mephistopheles (Archduke)
Moloch (Quasi Archduke as he is a viceroy of Baalzebul ruling the 6th layer in Baalzebul's name.)
Titivilus (Duke)
Over the editions there have been some changes. Geryon, Moloch and Amon are deposed now. Glasya having replaced Moloch as Archduke, with the new devil Levistus replacing Geryon. Zariel was introduced as the old ruler of the 1st layer in order to be replaced by the pit fiend Bel, but Bel himself was re replaced as Archduke by Zariel in 5e. Belial also gave co rulership to his daughter.
Anyway I would like all the Archdukes to make it in. We know the deposed archdukes are in so I hope we get all the current Archdukes.
dave2008
Legend
Well, it is not like OotA provided stats for ALL of the demon lords. They didn't even get all of the 1e MM1 & MM2 lords and princes.
But, since there will be at least 8 demon lords. It seems we might get most of the nine.
dave2008
Legend
Sword of Spirit
Legend
It would be a really silly thing to not put all of the nine in. With as much as we already know or suspect is going in, that would mean intentionally holding back monsters to get you to buy a future product. So far 5e has done a pretty good job of *not* pulling nonsense like that. Take the MM entries for the demons and devils. They gave us a pretty complete picture of the classic hierarchies, the same as they did in 2e when the monster entry was "Baatezu", and then had a similarly complete list in a single product. Sure, they still publish obscure ones in later products, but nothing like the fail that was 3e, where they didn't even include manes.
Now, they can still do better. Abishai should have been in, and they dropped the ball on the yugoloths. But my money is on all of the Lords of the Nine, plus a smattering of some other prominent ones.
Now, they can still do better. Abishai should have been in, and they dropped the ball on the yugoloths. But my money is on all of the Lords of the Nine, plus a smattering of some other prominent ones.
No longer. He kept his acquired divinity, but lost much power when Azuth broke free. The MM says that he's on par with a lesser god.
Demetrios1453
Hero
Thinking more on it, I think you're probably right in your reasoning when it comes to the archdevils. Anyway, we know that the eight demon princes from OotA are going to be in, so if they wanted to put in at minimum a similar number of archdevils, well, they might as well go for all of the rulers and ex-rulers, as that is only a handful more.
On a slightly different subject, it's interesting that Crawford said we'd be seeing mid-to-high CR yugoloths. But, interestingly, the MM already has most of those in the nycoloth, arcanaloth, and ultroloth. So, presumably we'll see the baernoloths and a named yugoloth or two like the General of Gehenna...
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Maybe we will get an Elite Ultroloth. Also I assume stuff like the Piscoloth and the Yagnoloth. Also going to hope for the Oinoloth Anthraxus. Don't know if I want the General, guy is pretty much the most mysterious fiend I can think of. I don't think he has ever been depicted or stated.
