D&D 4E List of Potential New Martial Practices

[Garthanos]

Yeah, well, how I would do it is you have your basic effect, which is that knowing this practice provides narrative justification for making a Nature check to achieve a success in an SC when obscuring your tracks would be a narratively appropriate means to achieve a success (or some other type of SC-related check, say if you called it a 'secondary skill use' to gain an advantage or whatever). If you're willing to pay the specified price, say one HS, then success is automatic.

So, rituals/practices provide 2 advantages to those who master them. They provide the player with plot power, she can justify doing things and using skills that might not otherwise be possible.

like enabling you and allies to use charisma based skills to discover information that normally would require perception because you speak with the dead.

Secondly they allow an automatic success in return for paying a price.

A normal use of nature might allow track obscurement but would slow the rate of your travelling while you did the obscurement. A healing surge might remove the slowing and make the roll automatic. However with just that model it still leaves the situation where it can easily be just wasted effort only used extremely rarely when you know you are being tracked. (hence my not quite congealed thoughts on hunters empathy to bring a sense of certainty to it) ... hunters empathy would also cover that tingling on the back of your neck when you are followed that rogues like so much.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

like enabling you and allies to use charisma based skills to discover information that normally would require perception because you speak with the dead.

Right, Speak With the Dead is simply an investigative tool, it can provide answers using whatever its key skill is (Religion maybe?) instead of Perception or Streetwise or whatever. Now, sometimes I could see a session of Speak With the Dead BEING an SC itself, but that's kind of a reasonable extrapolation, you got the chance to shape the plot in a way that let you take on that challenge instead of one you might be less equipped for. Its really just a bit more strategic version of the same thing (and maybe there are rituals/practices that ALWAYS have a strategic aspect, I'd have to think about that...).

A normal use of nature might allow track obscurement but would slow the rate of your travelling while you did the obscurement. A healing surge might remove the slowing and make the roll automatic. However with just that model it still leaves the situation where it can easily be just wasted effort only used extremely rarely when you know you are being tracked. (hence my not quite congealed thoughts on hunters empathy to bring a sense of certainty to it) ... hunters empathy would also cover that tingling on the back of your neck when you are followed that rogues like so much.

Yeah, just like with powers, there's some overlap between practices (not so much rituals, but maybe there too) and simple skill use. This is one of my motivations for emphasizing the additional plot element aspect and the option to pay for success, which 'use a skill' just won't give you. I'd also say that, as a design goal, we'd always want a ritual/practice to provide a strong extra element. Thus Hunter's Empathy as a practice certainly would be strongest if it adds another dimension. Honestly I think this may be a case where a practice is a bit TOO open-ended. I favor more task-oriented practices, remembering that there's no real limitation on how many a character can acquire, so even if they're a bit niche it still adds some value for SOMEONE (and the GM really should be giving away ones that are really exceptionally useful in a given scenario, but maybe not so much otherwise).

This is definitely where my advice and guidance is leading in HoML. I even describe rituals as a sort of 'power' that are not regulated, but operate as basically non-combat power-like mechanics, where they interact with challenges much like combat powers do with fights. This also opens up the question of why not have powers in general use the 'pay to succeed' model? You could almost do away with the a/e/d distinction (given that I already just made e and d to be costlier powers, one could simply make them costlier 'auto success' riders on at-wills).

 

[Garthanos]

This also opens up the question of why not have powers in general use the 'pay to succeed' model? You could almost do away with the a/e/d distinction (given that I already just made e and d to be costlier powers, one could simply make them costlier 'auto success' riders on at-wills).

One, Two.... Two fate points bwahahahhh .... says the count.

 

[Garthanos]

Right, Speak With the Dead is simply an investigative tool, it can provide answers using whatever its key skill is (Religion maybe?) instead of Perception or Streetwise or whatever.

ok it might be a freebie yes... or it might be just as you say some successes on the challenge... as what if the dead person lies to you in order to get revenge on someone or simply doesnt know and lies to be freed of this invasion or whatever hence why I sort of presented it as a skill swap not with the rituals to do skill but rather the communication abilities of the party ie convince the dead to tell you what you want to know.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

ok it might be a freebie yes... or it might be just as you say some successes on the challenge... as what if the dead person lies to you in order to get revenge on someone or simply doesnt know and lies to be freed of this invasion or whatever hence why I sort of presented it as a skill swap not with the rituals to do skill but rather the communication abilities of the party ie convince the dead to tell you what you want to know.

Well, in the non-pay version of my model that's effectively what you get, you sub in Religion or Charisma or WHATEVER so you have a chit-chat with the dead, vs you go whip out your magnifying glass and play Sherlock Holmes (Perception, Arcana, whatever). If you fail your check, well maybe someone lied to you, etc. just like if you questioned a living witness. If you're willing to pay, well, then you get the real goods, you use the potent ritual components and the dead guy tells the truth or whatever. Its more of an "I am willing to put up the stakes to make this happen" kind of thing. 'cause if you think about it, just subbing one skill for another isn't a big deal, why pay for that? Some other PC probably has that skill anyway! Even if they don't, just having the ritual is merely a plot convenience, it gives you a shot at taking one narrative path vs another. Paying OTOH should get you something for your money. THAT was the real issue with 4e rituals. At the core of it you paying just to get the privilege of shaping the possible narrative. In a game where there IS a plot, even if its one directed by the players, there's no literal advantage in having specific abilities, there's always SOME way forward. At most the GM can present a puzzle where finding that way is the game (and combat is one sort of puzzle when no fight is ever really unwinnable).

Some people might argue that my version of rituals/practices thwarts the 'puzzle game', but it doesn't really, because narrative coherency is still required, and you WILL run out of resources to pay for auto-success pretty soon if you simply rely on that technique. Eventually the PCs will have staked all their stakes and then they'll just have one huge skill check where it all comes down to one toss of the dice. You are enabled to play that way, which is fine, but you can also simply nudge things in a more interesting direction once in a while.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, in the non-pay version of my model that's effectively what you get, you sub in Religion or Charisma or WHATEVER so you have a chit-chat with the dead, vs you go whip out your magnifying glass and play Sherlock Holmes (Perception, Arcana, whatever). If you fail your check, well maybe someone lied to you, etc. just like if you questioned a living witness. If you're willing to pay, well, then you get the real goods, you use the potent ritual components and the dead guy tells the truth or whatever.

It occurs to be me that usually that is what a speak with the dead is but historically when one is calling up an ancestor you wanted consolation and advice maybe for them to improve your mood (thp?) or do a knowledge skill check.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It occurs to be me that usually that is what a speak with the dead is but historically when one is calling up an ancestor you wanted consolation and advice maybe for them to improve your mood (thp?) or do a knowledge skill check.

Well, you could use it as a way to do research. If you are just feeling blue, then there's no need for dice to come out! THAT is what I call an interlude, you just narrate them suckers. You COULD spend cash during one, but they're transition and setup, they don't resolve conflicts.

 

[Garthanos]

Just added

Double Back
skills: perception / nature / streetwise
"hairs raise on the back of his neck and he is certain he is being followed doubling back he takes the element of surprise from his enemies and makes it his own"
Conditions an enemy must have tracked or followed you without catching you for atleast 10 minutes cost healing surge to gain surprise.

Obscure tracks can work similarly.
"hairs raise on the back of his neck and he is certain he is being followed spend a healing surge so you and your allies can automatically shake your pursuers"
Conditions an enemy must have tracked or followed you without catching you for atleast 10 minutes cost healing surge to obscure the parties tracks perfectly.

I might include a skill roll for the sensing (and if its good enough it might get rid of the healing surge which kind of represents needing special effort)

 

[Cyvris]

Is there a link to the text for the listed Martial Practices? I can't seem to find them.

 

[Garthanos]

Is there a link to the text for the listed Martial Practices? I can't seem to find them.

Approxiimately 3/4 of them i have in part files for character builder, although some of those are transitioning because of design paradigm changes.