Looking for advice to append rogue build

[Herzog]

I've got a player in my party with a lvl 10 rogue who just levelled to lvl 11.

This character was originally created using Rules Cyclopedia D&D rules,
and later converted to 3.5

Because of several decisions made on character creation, she's got a rather strange set of stats for a rogue, among which are a Dex of 10 and a CHA en WIS of 17.

She's looking into getting more out of her high CHA en WIS, preferrably withoug loosing out too much on her rogue (Sneak Attack mostly) progression.


For now, our first ideas were to add levels of Warlock, Warmage or Sorcerer, but we got kind of stuck on the exact progression (maybe taking advantage of prestige classes) and postponed the decision for now. (we won't be playing for a couple of months, so we have the time to think it over)


Restrictions: No ToB, No skilltricks.

Build info:
Alignment: CN
STR 14
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 17
CHA 17
Feats: Zen Archery, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Combat Expertise, Improved Initiative, Improved Feint
Skills: Appraise: 6; Bluff: 6; Climb: 6; Craft (Drawing): 3; Craft (Poison): 3; Decipher Script: 6; Diplomacy: 10; Disable Device: 2; Escape Artist: 2; Gather Information: 6; Hide: 12; Listen: 10; Move Silently: 12; Open Lock: 4; Perform (Act): 4; Search: 6; Sense Motive: 4; Sleight of Hand: 4; Spot: 10; Tumble: 6; Use Magic Device: 6; Use Rope: 2;

Any ideas/suggestions?

 

[Grogg of the North]

What's the theme or feel of your character? That would help a lot with coming up with a build idea for you. Are you a sneaky sniper? A sauve con man? Otherwise here are a couple of thoughts to help.

1) It sounds like you've updated this character through a rules change. Can you ask your GM if you can move your stats so their more to your liking?

2) Another option is to pick up one more level of rogue and then start into sorcerer. You'll quickly qualify for Unseen Seer from Complete Mage which will advance your spell casting and sneak attack dice. I don't know if Zen Archery will work on spell rays though.

3) You could also build towards Arcane Trickster or Arcane Archer in the DMG. Arcane Trickster would also advance your sneak attack dice.

4) If you're going to pick up a casting class, take a look at the feat Practiced Spellcaster from Complete Arcane.

 

[Herzog]

Ok, some answers to your questions:
She's a 'backstabber' and the face of the party (most of the time). You should be able to gain her basic interest from the feat and skill selection.

Her character background was 'prostitute who decided the adventuring life was more to her liking'. (before anyone asks, yes, the player is female as well....)

as to your other points:

1) I am the DM. this is a character for one of my players. The character has been running from lvl 1, and changing it now seems wrong somehow. So unless the player initiate this herself and I introduce some kind of rebuilding quest, I'm not inclined to (let her) change the stats.

2) I get the sorcerrer and Unseen Seer suggestion. But why the extra level of rogue?

3) I think Arcane Archer is one of the worst written PrC's in existence. Arcane Trickster is a lot better, but requires several levels in a casting class IIRC.

4) Practices Spellcaster would be a good idea for a lvl 12 feat once she gets there.

So, assuming Unseen Seer and/or Arcane Trickster, what would be your suggested casting class? Warmage or Sorcerer?

And, should we decide to go for Warlock instead, any suggestions for a PrC? (I checked, and AFAIK Warlock doesn't let you qualify for US or AT)

 

[Dandu]

Hellfire Warlock, then Uncanny Trickster.

 

[Grogg of the North]

<snip>

2) I get the sorcerrer and Unseen Seer suggestion. But why the extra level of rogue?

3) I think Arcane Archer is one of the worst written PrC's in existence. Arcane Trickster is a lot better, but requires several levels in a casting class IIRC.

4) Practices Spellcaster would be a good idea for a lvl 12 feat once she gets there.

So, assuming Unseen Seer and/or Arcane Trickster, what would be your suggested casting class? Warmage or Sorcerer?

And, should we decide to go for Warlock instead, any suggestions for a PrC? (I checked, and AFAIK Warlock doesn't let you qualify for US or AT)

Some answers!

The extra level of rogue is to pick up the last of the skill requirements you'll need for the class. Though I suppose you could drop cross-class ranks from Sorcerer instead.

I agree that Arcane Archer isn't that great but I had the DMG open and figured I would mention it. The pathfinder version is much nicer.

Either warmage or sorceress would be good since you have the Cha for it. But warmage doesn't give you divination so it would not let you take US without either hand waving or taking an alternate class feature for their advanced learning.

Warlock prohibits you from taking a lot of PrCs since you don't have spells and you don't have an arcane or divine caster level. So by RAW a warlock cannot be an US.

 

[Herzog]

Warlock prohibits you from taking a lot of PrCs since you don't have spells and you don't have an arcane or divine caster level. So by RAW a warlock cannot be an US.

Actually, you do have an arcane caster level to qualify for prc's (as can be learned from the specific section in complete arcane)
as long as the requirement is '(arcane) caster x) instead of 'able to cast x lvl spells' the warlock qualifies.

I'll take another look at US and AT.

[MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION]: isn't Uncanny Trickster a PrC especially targeted at skill tricks (which I specifically mentioned not te be using)?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Complete Divine has the PrC 'Temple Raider of Oliadammara' that is a wisdom-based divine casting Rogue PrC. As a rogue she should already qualify most of the prereqs, one says Chaotic alignment, sounds like she fits but if you as the DM want to handwave that, feel free.

I've always thought the spell list was too narrow. It is definitely thematic, but too limited. My suggestion to amend this would be to add the Assassin spell list to this PrC, keeping with the theme, and just declare them all divine spells.

There is debate as to if the Shapechange Druid Variant in PHBII counds for meeting the prereqs for PrC's that require wildshape. If you as the DM think it would count, One level of Shapechange variant Druid should be enough to quality for Complete Adventurer's 'Daggerspell Shaper', and your player now has a SA progression, wild shape progression, and after the first level, Druid spell progression, which that Wisdom score can feed.

 

[BENINHB]

Arrgh, RumbleTiger beat me to Temple Raider of Oliadammara

Just regular Cleric levels could be good. High WIS for casting, lots of CHA for turning attempts for powering feats and abilities.

Someone who came from prostitution into adventuring could come to strongly revere a deity they felt helped them along their path.

 

[Herzog]

Took another look at the Temple Raider, and now remember why we dismissed it:
The way it's set up, it mainly adds rogue abilities to a non-rogue. Rogues get significantly less out of the PrC (already have SA, Trap Sense, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge, Trapfinding....)

Regular cleric sounds a lot better (although this still leaves open whether to go into a PrC and if so, which one....)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Isn't there a Shadowbane Stalker or something like that in C.Divine or C.Adv? I recall a divine rogue prestige class...