Losing interest....

[Morrus]

I know two people that playtest video games. Yes, it is work, but they do enjoy their job except when they have to pull double or triple shifts. Even the double shifts are not that bad in their opinion as they get extra pay and the employer brings in meals and snack.

I do, too, but they enjoy it as much as anyone enjoys low-paid menial work. I tried in once, years ago; I hated it. And the game never saw release! I'd never done anything so boring (and that includes a stint as a supermarket cashier and two call-centre jobs).

I think the designers should have had more things worked out (e.g., Fighters and Monsters) before presenting this for playtest.

Thing is, we were demanding it. Quite vociferously. Continually asking "Is it here yet?" like kids in the back seat of a car. Criticizing them for it not being here fast enough. So they gave it to us (although I'll readily admit that the timing with Monte's departure didn't seem coincidental - they gave us something we wanted). And now we're saying "you should have waited till you had more of it".

It seems like a damned-if-I-do-damned-if-I-don't situation. Which, in a sense, is fine - they're big boys and girls, and work for a big company. They can handle criticism.

So, given that, the right thing to do is just do what they feel will result in the best game. And that does not necessaily coincide with entertaining us; we've switched from consumers to playtesters: different role. At our own request, no less.

Small packages playtesting limited things is probably the best way forward for them: they can get the data in concentrated packets, interpret it, and act on it. They need us to playtest what they need feedback on at the time, not what will entertain us. Entertainment is a side-benefit at most. Data on very specific things is the game here.

 

[B.T.]

More robust mechanics are coming. People that want to help out with the core (which indeed have mechanics, what else have people been debating here?), get to, and if you want to wait for something more robust, nothing is stopping you. Everyone should be happy here....

The point is that there isn't much in the way of mechanics. Again: the developers playtested for months and are just now working on the tactical module. They couldn't even get AC right the first time around (which should be really, really simple, as it's just math and not anything trickier like introducing new mechanics).

 

[mhensley]

I've been a playtester for several rpg's and the playtest docs for 5e are way, way better than what I've had to work with before. Hell, it's probably a more complete game than the 4e basic set.

 

[mudbunny]

When writing a paper, you don't ask for a peer review of a rough draft. You ask for a peer review of a second or third draft. This is the same way. It's fine for WotC to release a pregen adventure, but they should also have already had semi-functional rules modules in the works. They need to be releasing previews of backgrounds, themes, feats, and so on. Again, they've already been at this for months.

I am not sure why you are surprised and/or disappointed. WotC has made it *very* clear from the *very* beginning of the playtest, heck, even before they released the documents, that the initial phases of the playtest (which we are in right now) would be the *very* basics, and that we wouldn't be getting character generation stuff until later on in the playtest.

To use a different analogy, you are walking into McDonalds, ordering a Big Mac and fries, and when you get it you are complaining that you aren't getting a gourmet burger made with Kobe beef and sweet potato fries.

WotC has given us *exactly* what they said that they were giving us.

 

[B.T.]

Nah, it's more like I've eaten my appetizer, have waited an hour for the main course, and then the chef comes out and tells me that my steak isn't going to be done for another 30 minutes even though he claims he started cooking it when I first came in.

 

[CleverNickName]

I do, too, but they enjoy it as much as anyone enjoys low-paid menial work. I tried in once, years ago; I hated it. And the game never saw release! I'd never done anything so boring (and that includes a stint as a supermarket cashier and two call-centre jobs).

I didn't mind it all that much, but I only did it for one summer. The pay was crap, but I got a free copy of the game at release (Doom 64). Which also was crap.

But I digress.

It would be nice if WotC would send out a second survey in a few weeks, halfway between the two release dates. I feel like my original survey response was filled with "oh wow look at the new shiney!" comments, and not enough of the more useful "this worked and this didn't" sort of stuff that takes more time to notice and play through.

On the other hand, maybe they aren't as interested in the latter, and only want the former at this stage. Sort of a "find out what dazzles them" method.

 

[PinkRose]

If Monsters and Fighters and Magic Items and Tactical and Narrative were all done when we got the first playtest, what would we have to give feedback for?
Wouldn't people be upset that their opinions weren't being listened to because they didn't remake the fighter the way they wanted it?

If I had a super power, it would be to slow down time on the internet. Because I think people forget, as Morrus pointed out, that it has only been 4 weeks. If you live on the next time moves too fast. People should go out and enjoy the sun. (Or snow if you live Down Under)

 

[AngryMojo]

When writing a paper, you don't ask for a peer review of a rough draft. You ask for a peer review of a second or third draft.

As somebody who gets paid to write I'm going to disagree with you on this. I have a peer group specifically for the purpose of reviewing my rough drafts, so do many writers with far more notoriety and skill than I can hope to accomplish. If you need public opinion to avoid getting caught up in your own process, you need that opinion as early in the process as possible.

Now this process differs for everybody, and my particular style isn't universal. But requiring that an early playtest require "polish" in any way is absurd, it completely undermines the concept of a playtest. At this point, the entire thing could be non-functional and resemble a car without wheels and the playtest would be serving it's function: pointing out the car has no wheels.

 

[mudbunny]

Nah, it's more like I've eaten my appetizer, have waited an hour for the main course, and then the chef comes out and tells me that my steak isn't going to be done for another 30 minutes even though he claims he started cooking it when I first came in.

To torture this analogy even further, the chef never said that he started cooking it when he first came in. It would be ore accurate to say that, when you sat down, the chef said "I am not sure if I am going to use a gas BBQ, charcoal, wood fire, frying pan in olive oil, butter, maybe vegetable oil. I might also broil it in the oven. Not really sure to start with. Hold on, it may be a while."

WotC never said that they were anywhere near to putting out advanced mechanics or a polished set of rules that you appear to be looking for, so I am not sure why you are disappointed in WotC for not providing something that they said that they were not going to provide.

Edit to add - I am not sure why I am getting so worked up about this. As I mentioned above, it is fully your prerogative to feel that WotC should be providing much more polished playtest material. I feel at this point we are just repeating talking points at each other, and we aren't really doing much else.

 

[Abstruse]

But updates with what?

For me, I'd be happy with some new characters, new monsters, and a new adventure to run. Just a couple of new toys to play with.

It's all well and good for Mearls to tell me to try this adventure or that adventure or swap out this theme for that theme and see how it works...and honestly, if the rules were more developed, I would be doing that...but I don't see the point in wasting that much time converting old modules to Next or trying to kitbash new PCs when Wizards could very easily give us Playtest Update #1 .1 with a new version of the existing themes/classes/races mixed and matched. A human fighter, a elf rogue, a human wizard, etc. Sure, it's not anything new, but it's someone at Wizards doing a couple hours work instead of making dozens or hundreds of people do that same work with vastly different results.

I busted my ass over three months finishing up a Next conversion of T1 Village of Hommlet to Next because I thought it'd be fun to have something with a little more teeth on it to run. I've spent the last three days finishing it up before a trip to Austin so I could run it for some old friends. I posted the info I had to a post on here and guess what I found out? That's the current adventure the friends and family playtest is using!! Which means there's a good chance it's going to be in the next playtest packet and I wasted a whole hell of a lot of time on nothing.

So please, Wizards, Give me something. Just a little taste to hold me over! That's it, I swear!