Low-Magic Campaign Experiment

[Cheiromancer]

I want to talk more about the spell lists.

I like the idea of a tight list of spells that exclude effects that are troublesome because of balance or rules issues or because they change the nature of the campaign too much, too soon. Aesthetically, though, I would like it if the list consisted of core spells; spells from the PHB only.

What non-core spells (if any) from these lists could not be replaced by PHB spells? I mean, if you already have disintegrate you really don't need puncture, especially if hit determination tables aren't your thing. But if you don't have lower resistance some encounters can no longer be dealt with; a wizard's strategies and spell selections will be substantially altered.

So my guess is that a spell like lower resistance is indispensable, but puncture isn't. Would folks agree? If you had to make the spell list closer to core, what spells could be replaced easily, and which would have to stay?

 

[Methos]

IMO, the key to pulling off a low-magic campaign

Having played in one of these campaign styles before as a player, I believe that a "low magic" campaign can be a lot of fun. However, in my experience, campaigns of this nature tend to start breaking down at mid to high levels unless they are very closely monitored and planned by the DM.

The reason for this breakdown is fundamentally due to what type of BBEG you are planning on tossing at the players as you begin to move to mid to high levels. Planning for an NPC that uses the same creation rules as the PC's isn't a problem. The playing field is level. However, when you start to use monsters that have special abilities, you run the risk of tossing things at the PC's that they simply will not be able to handle, since being able to deal with such baddies is dependent to a certain degree on having access to certain spells and magic items.

You seem to have thought this out very well so far, but that is just my own cautionary note, since in the above campaign, we really began to experiece some difficulties as PC's around level 6, and by level 12 it was pretty much all over since our DM was throwing monsters at us that essentially didn't adhere to the same "laws" that we had to as players. I personally believe that low magic campaigns can only work really well when the main BBEG's are composed of races that require level advancement along the standard class and prestige class lines since it is easy to incorporate your rule changes into those types of villians.

Cheers

Methos

 

[the Jester]

I'm trying to remain aware of the potential pitfalls of high-level low-magic settings. However, by the time the pcs are high level they will no doubt have uncovered/recovered a little lost lore; hopefully I can use this sort of thing as treasure to help keep the system in balance.

As to the spell lists: I winnowed them out with a couple of different criteria in mind, but one of them was 'classic campaign status.' Puncture is a perennial favorite of both mine and my players', so it stayed. That said, you can prolly easily swap out anything that isn't core rules for something in the PH, but one of the ideas I have in mind is that there will be at least a few 'modern' spells or techniques unknown in previous eras. I also put several of the non-core spells in there for flavor reasons more than anything, especially deadly weapon, which adds to the severity of crits (I use a severity chart based on damage).

Thanks to everyone for their interest and feedback so far!

 

[the Jester]

Regarding the lack of some cure spells (cmw, the mass cure line): flavor and setting wise, this is intended to make characters take combat a little more seriously, just like the lack of raise dead. It can be gotten around by taking the Healing domain; that will add a bunch of healy-type magic to your repertoire, and as priests cast spontaneously that's pretty much like turning your priest into a wand of lots of healing spells.

 

[Nifft]

My suggestions (for what they're worth):

1/ Empower Spell multiplies all numeric effects by 1.5. So, for example, an empowered false life grants at maximum (1d10+10) * 1.5 temporary hit points (= 16-30 temp hp), and an empowered cure moderate wounds cures at maximum (2d8+10) * 1.5 hp (=3d8+15 hp).

2/ Clerics can convert a turn undead attempt into a burst of healing, which cures one target of 1d8+Level hp, as a full-round action.

3/ Spell lists as follows:

Cleric:
1- Bless, Bane, Command, Detect Alignment, Detect Undead, Doom, Magic Stone, Protection from Alignment
2- Aid, Align Weapon, Delay Poison, Gentle Repose, Lesser Restoration, Shield Other
3- Bestow Curse, Glyph of Warding, Helping Hand, Magic Circle vs. Alignment, Prayer
4- Death Ward, Dismissal, Imbue with Spell Ability, Lesser Planar Ally, Sending
5- Atonement, Break Enchantment, Dispel Alignment, Raise Dead
6- Banishment, Gease/Quest, Banishment, Planar Ally
7- Control Weather, Repulsion, Resurrection
8- Antimagic Field, Dimensional Lock, Greater Planar Ally
9- Gate, Miracle, True Resurrection


Druid:
1- Calm Animals, Charm Animals, Detect Animals & Plants, Endure Elements, Entangle, Obscuring Mist, Speak with Animals
2- Animal Messenger, Delay Poison, Fog Cloud, Gust of Wind, Hold Animal, Tree Shape, Warp Wood
3- Dominate Animal, Neutralize Poison, Remove Disease, Sleet Storm, Snare, Speak with Plants
4- Antiplant Shell, Command Plants, Control Water, Reincarnate, Repel Vermin
5- Atonement, Commune with Nature, Control Winds, Transmute Rock to Mud, Transmute Mud to Rock
6- Antilife Shell, Control Weather, Repel Wood, Stone Tell
7- Animate Plants, Changestaff, Transmute Metal to Wood
8- Control Plants, Repel Metal or Stone, Liveoak
9- Elemental Swarm, Foresight, Shambler


Wizards:
Standard spells, and 2/level known, but it's really hard to find new spells. That, plus low wealth, is really enough burden. Whatever spells are in your spell book, you can cast spontaneously.


Sorcerers:
No such thing.


ALL SPELLCASTERS:
Bonus spell slots determined by Wis or Int (per usual).
Spell DCs are always determined by Charisma.
There's a Feat (Expanded Spell List) which allows you to add ANY one spell to your spell list. Even a Bard spell (like Suggestion at spell level 2).


-- N

 

[Cheiromancer]

Nifft,

When you say "standard spells" do you mean PHB spells, or something else?

 

[Nifft]

When you say "standard spells" do you mean PHB spells, or something else?

I mean 2/level spells known (as opposed to Clerics & Druids, who spontaneously cast from among any spell in those lists). I haven't made a big list of available spells yet. Teleport et al. are good candidates to NOT be on that list.

-- N

 

[the Jester]

Nifft: some interesting ideas, especially the idea of exchanging turning attempts into healing instead of keeping the healing spells.

I strongly advise against keeping miracle on your spell list. It lets you duplicate all the troublesome crap you've otherwise gotten rid of.

 

[Nifft]

I strongly advise against keeping miracle on your spell list. It lets you duplicate all the troublesome crap you've otherwise gotten rid of.

The basic idea of spell strength for spontaneous casters is: situational spells are only weak if they carry an opportunity cost -- if they are taken at the expense of something more general. In the above lists, I tried hard to put in only things that every Cleric should be able to do ten times per day.

Miracle is there because it's assumed that the DM will be strong enough to say "no, in fact, your Lord does not do that"... and because, at that level, it's nice to give the PCs some open-ended effects. Treat it as wish if you'd like -- "please insert 5k XP to continue!"

-- N

 

[the Jester]

Interesting, I find it easier to just have a relatively small list of 'known' spells, with the opportunity to add more via discovery (treasure, npcs, special training, etc). Though there are tons of 'other' spells and effects a miracle can produce that are ok even if not on the list, I want to keep the basic spell lists as focused as possible.

In general, beyond the obvious mechanical implications of the Year 271 setting, I want to explore the setting implications.

1. What happened? Where'd all the stuff people used to be able to do go? How was it lost?

2. Magic items have a much higher intrinsic value in this system, because money is scarce, items are rare and more likely to be able to do something a spell (known to the general caster populace) can't, etc.

3. I foresee using some alchemical, technlogical, etc. developments as well- for instance, maybe the alchemical healing salve, refinements on sunpowder technology, steam engines, etc. I don't want a steampunk setting, but I want to come up with a couple of 'undiscovered sciences' or technological innovations for the setting that keep the mood of the setting the way I want it- kind of a cross between Dying Earth and the Black Company.

4. Where are the other races?

5. How do people deal with highly magical monsters in a low-magic world, especially if there are lots of the monsters?

6. How does the lowered magic level affect the political situation? Are casters feared, shunned, or prized? Are wizards treated differently than priests? Do priests, wizards or druids have any pull in society?

7. When someone does discover a potent magic item or an unknown spell, how do people react to them? Fear, envy, etc? Are there black markets for magic items? If so, how do they get their supply?

And so forth.