{M&M} A few gripes.

[Shapermc]

First off I would like to say that this seem's to be a really great system, and I am enjoying reading it. But I am having some difficulty wading through the crap in here. I understand that most of the first few chapters are OGL stuff, but now that I am at the Super-Powers stuff and combat and devices. . . what did I miss?

There are all kind of terms that I am waiting for a good solid definition in one place. I get the 'gist' of things in here but they seem like they want to avoid certain things till the end (this is not a novel I don't need to wait till the end to figure out how much stun/lethal damage yuo can take.) I understand all the basic terms, but where do you get the #'s from for some of these things. I know that by the time I finish this thing I will understand, but it is making it difficult. I love how this system seems like it is going to work, but it is very shady on the details.

Also where is alot of the flavor text? There are no 'character creation' examples, no 'combat example'. . . Where is the flavor? Most of this is OGL stuff in the book (except the points sytem!?!).

Any ways. . . Am I just missing this stuff or did anyone else notice this as well? Also they did a poor job on the empty character sheet (I know that there are more all over the web). I am really looking forward to playing a M&M game, but I have to finish reading. Till then, LMK your thoughts on this topic.

 

[mistergone]

Uhm... hm. I'm kind of a retard when it comes to absorbing rules at first read-over, but even I got most of these. I don't quite get at what "things" you feel are missing. It's all there, trust me. Well sure, there's no character creation or combat example, which would be nice, but otherwise it seems pretty complete to me. Just keep reading, is all I can say. And keep an open mind. Read the combat rules before the character generation rules. I don't think I've ever read a game book straight through cover to cover. The chapters are really there to break thigns up rather than be read like a novel.

Of course, MnM is my new favorite rpg ever, so maybe I am biased on it's fantastic merits.

 

[Magius del Cotto]

As mistergone said, you really shouldn't read it front to back. In fact, most rulebooks aren't meant to work that way (though I still read them that way for the heck of it - you have to have some method to your madness, you know...), and often trying to treat them that way is just going to give you a big headache.
Now, for the lack of flavor text, yes, I know, it can be quite annoying, but the fact is that if they added it in, they would have had to cut stuff out from other sections, and I'd rather they not have to do that.
Personally, I'd say read through it and don't treat it like a novel. It'll just save you a bit of trouble in the end.

 

[Shapermc]

Well it is all there, but I guess that my gripes are that it is a little disorginised. I do like the system, but I just feel that the chapters could have been orginised a bit better.

Here is an example of what I mean. . .
(from my perspective)

Defence and attack bonuses are talked about all the time, stun and lethal are talked about, hitting or taking damage same thing. It dosent say *exactly* anywhere how much damage you can take. You almost have to read between the lines to figure out that it is how much you fail the defence by determains how much you can "get hit". And you dont figure out this till *after 90% of the player stuff,* in the combat section. I just think that defence (more like how much hits you can take) should be talked about in a bit more detail earlier or in another chaper. Combat should not be the first section it appears in.

Honestly I just wish that character creation was explained a bit better, but that is why I am here !

P.S. I am not reading it cover to cover, I am reading all the pertinint chapers and what not. I have many many many source materials and know that this is not a novel. I still feel that a source book should be laid out in the same format that you create a character (for the player half) and then all the combat and GM stuff. For an example of what I mean look to Call of Cthulhu source book (d20) in my opinion it has the best lay out for easy referance.

 

[Neo]

Well my suggestion is to use the method i did for grasping the mechanics...

no cover to cover read, simply make two characters as you go, learning the rules as you go and then use them in a test combat to learn that side of things...it usually drives everything home real fast and also means you inevitably have to discover the relevant rules by going through the character creation and combat processes.

Only gripe I had with M&M was regarding how wealth is handled, other than that this game is sheer joy.

 

[Shapermc]

Good Idea Neo. I will do that. This reading is burning a hole in my brain. I love some of this stuff and it just makes Ideas happen in my head! Now if only I had enough black ink. . .

Ohh and the wealth thing. . . Read d20 Modern's wealth rules.

PC: I want to buy a movie ticket for me and my date.
GM: Ok roll a d20
PC: damn I only got a 3
GM: When you use your bank card it says you do not have the funds.
PC: WTF!?!?!?! Now what do I tell my date.

So far CoC has the best welth system and my group and I use that for every d20 game where money is involved.

 

[Neo]

PC: I want to buy a movie ticket for me and my date.
GM: Ok roll a d20
PC: damn I only got a 3
GM: When you use your bank card it says you do not have the funds.
PC: WTF!?!?!?! Now what do I tell my date.
.

My life now makes so much more sense I just need a new D20 <lol>

 

[Forcegypsy]

Perfect example of knocking the rules when you haven't taken the time to understand them. You can always take 10 or 20 on Wealth checks. Also the DC for a movie ticket is a 1 or 2.

Feel free to gripe, but at least gripe with a legitimate concern. A simple glance at the faq sticky post would clarify many of your misunderstandings.

I like a gripe as much as the next person, next time make it a real one

 

[Kenpo Wolf]

I just got my copy of M&M last week and had no problem at all in learning most of the rules. Although T20 is still my favorite D20 product, M&M comes pretty damn close to it.

BTW, my only complaint with M&M is with cover and the wasted space between the chapters. They should have put the chapter titles on the full page artwork similiar to the titles on various comics. This would have gone a long way in keeping with the 'feel' of the comics.

 

[Shapermc]

Perfect example of knocking the rules when you haven't taken the time to understand them. You can always take 10 or 20 on Wealth checks. Also the DC for a movie ticket is a 1 or 2.

This never made sence to me. You either have the $$$ or not. This is not a skill, or an ability. I just like it when you have X ammount of cash. When it is depleted you are out of cash. Unless you have an income. But this is all preferance and none the less this post shal not get hijacked, but I was just chiming in on my agreeing with the wealth thing.

The origional topic, was just that the M&M book could have been orginised a bit better, especially in the character creation area. There were a few rules that were a bit difficult to figure out.