Magic Missile vrs. Displacement

[Dr.Dan]

A question has recently arisen in my campaign, does Displacement offer protection against Magic Missiles?

The relevant portion of the Magic Missile description states:
"The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee or has anything less than total cover or concealment."

The relevant portion of the Displacement description states:
"He benefits from a 50% miss chance as if he had full concealment. However, unlike actual full concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting him normally."

My Argument:
Given that the caster of Magic Missile must see his enemy in order to target it, and given that Displacement makes the target appear to be where he is not, ought not the Missiles suffer from the miss chance?

Counter Argument:
Magic Missile strikes its target 'unerringly' and displacement 'does not prevent enemies from targeting him normally'. Thus Displacement offers no protection.

What do you think?

 

[prodawg]

I would say that displacement does offer protection on magic missile. The caster would still suffer 50% chance miss. Concealment is negated because the caster is able to target the missiles accurately and can aim them at the exposed parts . Displacement offers another kind of protection, illusions rather than concealment. Therefore, the caster would still suffer the 50% chance miss.

 

[Vurt]

I'd rule that unless the wizard had something providing the effects of true seeing up, her magic missiles would target the displacement effect unerringly. Hence I'd apply the 50% miss chance on each missile as per normal for the displacement spell.

Vurt

 

[Destil]

Uhm... what part of "does not prevent enemies from targeting him normally" dosn't fit within the scope of magic missile? Of course it works without a miss chance, that's the entire point of that line. The same way hold person would work.

 

[Vurt]

Uhm... what part of "does not prevent enemies from targeting him normally" dosn't fit within the scope of magic missile?

To me that just means you can still aim at him, as opposed to if the target was invisible. So the missiles would automatically "hit", but still suffer the 50% miss chance of hitting the wrong target.

Of course it works without a miss chance, that's the entire point of that line. The same way hold person would work.

I respectfully disagree. I think there's enough room to still leave it open to interpretation. Maybe I'm thinking too much, but to me it seems odd and outside of the spirit of the lowly magic missile spell for the missiles launched from the caster's fingertip towards the target to suddenly veer left 2 feet to the target's actual location at the last millisecond. If you're going to go that route, you could argue that the magic missile spell ignores mirror images, instead homing in on the one real target. It's obviously the thing must be heat-seeking!

Vurt

 

[Destil]

To me that just means you can still aim at him, as opposed to if the target was invisible. So the missiles would automatically "hit", but still suffer the 50% miss chance of hitting the wrong target.



I respectfully disagree. I think there's enough room to still leave it open to interpretation. Maybe I'm thinking too much, but to me it seems odd and outside of the spirit of the lowly magic missile spell for the missiles launched from the caster's fingertip towards the target to suddenly veer left 2 feet to the target's actual location at the last millisecond. If you're going to go that route, you could argue that the magic missile spell ignores mirror images, instead homing in on the one real target. It's obviously the thing must be heat-seeking!

Vurt

Magic Missile is targeted. Mirror Image is not the same thing as displacement or a miss chance. A Mirror Image can be targeted, the attacker chooses which image to target / swing a sword at / shoot et cetera. If you cast Hold Person on someone with mirror image up and select an image hold simply destroys it with no effect on the mirror image's caster.

Magic missile is targeted. "The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee or has anything less than total cover or concealment." wasn't even needed in the description, as all targeted spell function this way. Thus magic missle is 'heat seaking' or whatever, it functions exactialy like any other targeted spell (like my continuing example of hold person).

And yes, this is inconsistant with the rest of the rules when you think of it logicaly, it should be a reflex save or an attack roll. That's just the way MM works It's not really supposted to be balanced or consistant, it's the most sacred of all cows.

 

[Vurt]

I guess my problem is I want this to somehow make sense, when really all it is is a bunch of stats in a book interacting with one another. But that's no fun!

For instance, you can sort of fake a displacement spell with an invisibility and a major image, so long as you don't actually attack while invisible. You keep your image within 2 feet or whatever to be the same as the displacement effect. Now, do magic missiles targeted at the image hit the caster even though they'd occupy the same square? Well... Technically no, because they unerringly strike the image, but really that should depend on the relative position of the image to the invisible dude with respect to the magic missile caster. In that case, you might be justified in having a 50% chance of hitting the invisible ne'erdowell.

If magic missile was just a ray that always rolled 20 to hit, then wouldn't the 50% miss chance apply? Well, doesn't "unnerringly strike" its target mean just that, in game mechanics terms?

I want my magic system to be consistent and make sense, darn it! A first level sacred cow should not trump a third level spell!

(And thanks for debating this with me Destil. )

Vurt

 

[Hypersmurf]

If magic missile was just a ray that always rolled 20 to hit, then wouldn't the 50% miss chance apply?

Yes.

Well, doesn't "unnerringly strike" its target mean just that, in game mechanics terms?

No.

If it did, then it would automatically threaten a critical, it could be used with Sneak Attacks, it would be eligible for the Improved Critical: Energy Missile feat...

It's not a weaponlike spell. It's a targetted spell. There's no aiming involved.

I want my magic system to be consistent and make sense, darn it! A first level sacred cow should not trump a third level spell![/B]

Like, say, 2nd level See Invisible trumping 4th level Improved Invisibility?

It is consistent. All spells that require an attack roll suffer a miss chance. All spells that are targetted do not.

Magic Missile is targetted.

-Hyp.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

When it comes down to it, if you need an explaination, blame magic. Magic missile seeks into the "magic imprint" of the target which is specified when casting. Mirror image creates multiple "magic imprints" along with the visual effect. Displacement just bends lignt slightly to make your image appear nearby. This doesn't fool the magic missile because it finds the "magic imprint" of the target the mage points at. not the image.

There you go, problem solved. After all, magic is meant to be a lot more arcane than is specified in the rules, that's why wizards study for years to understand why certain effects do what they do.

 

[Vurt]

Like, say, 2nd level See Invisible trumping 4th level Improved Invisibility?

See invisibility is designed to, well, see invisible. It's a counter spell, and yes I agree that counter spells should be lower level than the spell or effect they're countering. Magic missile, however, is not a counter spell, it's a direct damage spell. It's purpose isn't to foil other spells. That just seems to be the side-effect that's being argued.

It is consistent. All spells that require an attack roll suffer a miss chance. All spells that are targetted do not.

Magic Missile is targetted.

Fair enough, but the magic missile isn't being targeted at the displacee, it's being targeted at his image. Isn't that the whole point of the displacement spell? Without true seeing or the like you can't really tell where he's really at? Or is that all immaterial?

Vurt