Magic Stat question

[yipwyg42]

Ok my friends and I have been in a discussion concerning how high a stat has to be at 1st level to ensure that you can cast higher end magic.

One of my friends said that only your base stat plus your increases as you level reflect how high a spell level you can cast.

For example if you started out with a 15 intelligence and you dumped every single level increase in it til you where 16th level you would have a 19 intelligence therefore you can cast 9th level spells.

He says magical items do not count. With the same example; if you had a 15 intelligence at 1st level and you never increased it through leveling, however, you did get a magical item that increased it by +4 this would not count to determine if you could cast 9th level spells.

My other friend says that it is your base, plus adds, plus magical item bonuses.

Which is correct. Please site book and page number if you can

Thanks.

 

[Kat']

The PHB says, to cast a spell you must have a score of at least 10+spell level in your spellcasting attribute. Nothing more. So if your Int is 15 and you get a +4 item, you can cast 9th level spells, provided you have access to them. So your second pal is right.

 

[Aestolia]

The PHB says, to cast a spell you must have a score of at least 10+spell level in your spellcasting attribute. Nothing more. So if your Int is 15 and you get a +4 item, you can cast 9th level spells, provided you have access to them. So your second pal is right.

Most definitely agree with this, the concern is with bonus spells per day.

It may have been a house rule with my old DM, but for some reason i keep thinking that if you were wearing the item for the past 24 hours you get the bonus spells, if ever it's removed you loose them and can't re memorize until you've had the item on for another day.

 

[werk]

Yeah, that sounds like a house rule.

AFAIK your stat is your stat regardless of how it got there, with all accompanying benefits. Different DMs will adjudicate the increase as they see fit, usually requiring that you rest or prepare spells before they are available.

 

[Aestolia]

Yeah, that sounds like a house rule.

AFAIK your stat is your stat regardless of how it got there, with all accompanying benefits. Different DMs will adjudicate the increase as they see fit, usually requiring that you rest or prepare spells before they are available.

Problem is, i'm fairly certain that isn't always the case, if you level up, you don't get extra skill points because you have a + int item do you?

 

[darthkilmor]

Problem is, i'm fairly certain that isn't always the case, if you level up, you don't get extra skill points because you have a + int item do you?

That would be the single exception, I believe; which on the SRD for Headband of Intellect is specifically called out.

 

[irdeggman]

Actually.


from the FAQ (yeah I know. . . . but still)

Do ability enhancing items (such as the headband of intellect, cloak of charisma, and periapt of wisdom) grant bonus spells to the appropriate spellcasters? The spells these items are based on would seem to prohibit it, but the only things specifically addressed in the item descriptions are skill points.

Yes, you can get extra bonus spells if you have an item that increases the ability score that governs your spellcasting. To get the extra bonus spells, you must wear the item while resting to regain spells and all through your initial daily preparations for spellcasting. (Even characters who don’t prepare spells need to meditate a little while at the beginning of the day; see Daily Readying of spells under the Sorcerers and bards section of Chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.)

If you lose the item, you immediately lose the bonus spell slots the item gave you, starting with any uncast spells you have of the appropriate levels.

From the SRD

When an ability score changes, all attributes associated with that score change accordingly. A character does not retroactively get additional skill points for previous levels if she increases her intelligence.

the PHB also talks about what happens if an ability score is lowered by effects such as poison.

If your character’s ability score is 9 or lower, you can’t cast spells tied to that ability. For example, if Mialee’s Intelligence score dropped to 9 because of a poison that reduces intellect, she would not be able to cast even her simplest spells until cured.

So essentially the RAW treats all causes of changes to ability scores as having the end result that the ability score is effectively changed.

This includes text on ability score damage (temporary) and drain (permanent).

The "new" information (from FAQ) is how long (and when) you have to be under the effect of something that causes an increase in an ability score to gain such a benefit.

 

[UltimaGabe]

He says magical items do not count. With the same example; if you had a 15 intelligence at 1st level and you never increased it through leveling, however, you did get a magical item that increased it by +4 this would not count to determine if you could cast 9th level spells.

My other friend says that it is your base, plus adds, plus magical item bonuses.

With the exception of not being able to get extra skill points from an Intelligence-boosting item (which is specifically spelled out in the item's description), the rules make absolutely no distinction between a magically-boosted stat and a non-boosted stat. A Cleric with a 19 Wisdom is, in every way, shape, and form, identical casting-wise with a Cleric with a 13 Wisdom and a Periapt of Wisdom +6. This applies to Bonus Spells, Maximum Spell Levels, Save DCs, and so on.

 

[Aestolia]

The "new" information (from FAQ) is how long (and when) you have to be under the effect of something that causes an increase in an ability score to gain such a benefit.

That's what I was thinking of, I knew I wasn't crazy...
...
Well not too crazy anyways.