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Make up of Elven Border Patrol

Gray Lensman

Explorer
Okay, 1st, it is a Forested Hills Elven Realm.

Would the Border Patrol be more a static thing with outposts and such or more of a roving patrol type thing or a mix of the two?

Would Elven Druids be serving with the Border Patrol along with the Casters and Shieldbeaters (I suppose I should say Rangers and Scouts)?

2nd, it is roughly 10,000 square miles.

Would the patrols/outposts be squad sized or maybe larger?

Say it was squad sized (10 or 12), what would you put in it?

And Please - make sure you tell me what books I have to scrounge for now. ;)
 

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kitcik

Adventurer
I would say small patrols with druids capable of casting Transport via Plants. Naturally, there will be a network of plants allowing the patrols to quickly muster forces from wherever the elves and their allies actually live.
 

was

Adventurer
Outposts along main routes, sending out small roving patrols that are out up to a week at a time. Figure patrols of eight..2 recon scouts, 1 healer type, 1 arcane type and 4 fighter/archer types..leader can be any of the positions..though prob not the scouts..
 

Gray Lensman

Explorer
So, say I go with 12.

2 Druids (so they could split up if needed), 10 Rangers or Scouts or maybe Swifthunters or a mix(Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: The Swift Hunter's Handbook)

I would imagine I would still have to have a few outposts as well (like aound the main entrances, ect.).

Although, having two 11th level druids for 1 patrol does seem to be a bit of overkill. But I imagine it is possible to create Wands of Transport via Plants.

Think it worthwhile to have arcane casters as well?

In forested hills(I think the are going to be HEAVILY forested hills, but I have not seen the map yet) I don't really see them needing mounts, as I know I can find spells for communication.
 

kitcik

Adventurer
I likfe the wand idea. You could have one 11th druid and like his apprentive at 6th level or something with the wand.

I would say arcane casters are not required in the patrols, although they may join patrols depending on the personality of the casters - so in some cases (frequency depending on how common arcane casters are in your world), there may be an arcane caster in the patrol.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
 

Greenfield

Adventurer
First, the chaotic nature of Elves suggests an irregular pattern of patrols, rather than fixed outposts and well organized routine.

Second, the nature of most game worlds suggests that they're unlikely to be more than 3rd or 4th level, for the most part. The vast majority of the world, according to both DMG and World Builder's Guide, are 1st level commoners. So having a party of a dozen or so at anything higher than 2nd level (and PC classes to boot) would represent something of an elite force.

Consider their roll: They are the eyes and the ears of their territorial defense group, not the fists and blades. They are far more likely to locate interlopers by cutting their trail than by actually running into them.

From there they'll send word of what they've found, and follow the trail to locate and keep an eye on whoever it is. They'll decide from there what has to be done, and if violence is the answer they'll likely wait for re-enforcements.

So, how many does it take to do this? A dozen? I'd think the scouts would work in teams of three or four, with a leader, two sweepers and an apprentice. The apprentice is the one most likely to be sent as a messenger, as it will send them away from danger. Small groups are harder for the interlopers to spot, and they can have more of them out there.

Now, what is their response team going to look like, once they're called in? They'll probably call for about twice as many as they think they need. This is where their elite people really are. If violence is called for, they don't want to offer a fair fight, and they don't want to lose anyone. They'll hit hard and fast and decisively. Hard enough that any who escape will carry tales of Elven shadows everywhere, and the only thing you ever see of them is their arrows. Lots and lots of arrows.

This way they only need one or two Druids with Transport via Plants available to transport this fast strike force to the scene and bring them home.
 

Gray Lensman

Explorer
First, the chaotic nature of Elves suggests an irregular pattern of patrols, rather than fixed outposts and well organized routine.

I tend to disagree somewhat with this, yes elves are somewhat chaotic in nature, but any organized community is going to have some rules/policies/procedures.

Second, the nature of most game worlds suggests that they're unlikely to be more than 3rd or 4th level, for the most part. The vast majority of the world, according to both DMG and World Builder's Guide, are 1st level commoners. So having a party of a dozen or so at anything higher than 2nd level (and PC classes to boot) would represent something of an elite force.

I agree, but I will probably bump the leaders up to 5th level. Druid Wildshape being the reason, not to memtion communications facilitation (gonna have to dig out the druid spell list again)


Consider their roll: They are the eyes and the ears of their territorial defense group, not the fists and blades. They are far more likely to locate interlopers by cutting their trail than by actually running into them.

Most likely, of course they are gonna have help from the forest's other denizens as well in this regard.


So, how many does it take to do this? A dozen? I'd think the scouts would work in teams of three or four, with a leader, two sweepers and an apprentice. The apprentice is the one most likely to be sent as a messenger, as it will send them away from danger. Small groups are harder for the interlopers to spot, and they can have more of them out there.

Six, leader with an apprentice, two teams of two sweepers. What can I say, my RL experience has made me a real believer in the buddy system.

So,
5th level Druid with a 1st level Apprentice
and two teams of 3rd level Swifthhunter and 2nd level Swifthunter. Yes, I am kinda stuck on the Ranger/Scout Swifthunter mix. I just think it fits pretty well.

I have to see if I can get Cindy to let me post a couple of her maps.
And her idea of having the Draconic Adventuring NPC and the PC Party going after something at the same time in the Elven Realm should be a real hoot. :devil:
 

Jack Simth

First Post
Okay, 1st, it is a Forested Hills Elven Realm.

Would the Border Patrol be more a static thing with outposts and such or more of a roving patrol type thing or a mix of the two?

Would Elven Druids be serving with the Border Patrol along with the Casters and Shieldbeaters (I suppose I should say Rangers and Scouts)?

2nd, it is roughly 10,000 square miles.

Would the patrols/outposts be squad sized or maybe larger?

Say it was squad sized (10 or 12), what would you put in it?

And Please - make sure you tell me what books I have to scrounge for now. ;)

A few questions for you:
1) What are the resources that the person who decided to do this has available to accomplish this task (people available, purchasing power, item accessibility, controlled beasts, et cetera)?
2) What is the personality of the person setting it up (is (s)he from a military background? An arcanist background? A divine background? What's the person's go-to strategy in general?)?
3) What is the expected nature of the threat that this border patrol is supposed to stop / prevent / stymie (smugglers, invading armies, illegal immigrants, migrating beasties, something else)?
4) What is the expected resources of the threat that this border patrol is supposed to stop / prevent / stymie?

If you start answering these kinds of questions, your answers for them will start building your border patrol in short order.
 

kitcik

Adventurer
As it regards their chaotic nature, I would agree not too many outposts. Their organization will be where they live, centrally in the forest.

Between that fact and the 10,000 square miles they have to cover, I would expect the scout teams to be larger (although they likely break down into smaller patrols) with a number of elite units actually out on patrol.
 

Celebrim

Legend
I'll tell you how it works in my campaign world, and then you can decide how you go from there:

The elves don't consider anything that sheds blood to be a particularly honorable profession. Many in fact consider it down right dishonorable. So they don't have much in the way of a standing army. Normally, threats are dealt with locally by an impromptu organizing of the militia. Elves are very xenophobic (plagues hit them hard), and they practice the 'shoot first' philosophy whenever they have the advantage in numbers on the principle that anything wandering in elf lands that isn't an elf is probably an enemy or too stupid to reason with. Elves that avoid combat live for a long time, and they typically obtain a fairly high level compared to shorter live races. As such, in most places the 'border patrol' may consist of a random elf who happens to be near the border when he sees 'invaders'.

Average Elf (Com8): CR: 2; Medium-Size Humanoid (Elf); HD 8d4-8; hp 12; Init +1 (Dex); Spd 30 ft.; AC 12 (+1 Dex, +1 padded); Atk: Longsword +4 melee (1d8), or shortbow +5 ranged (1d6); SQ: Elven traits; AL: CG; SV: Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +3; Str 10, Dex 13, Con 8, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 9
Skills and Feats: Animal Empathy +2, Craft +10, Hide +3, Listen +7, Move Silently +3, Perform +4, Search +4, Spot +7; Alertness, Skill Focus (Craft), Run

In areas that the elves haven't tamed, your average elf is a bit wilder and more martial in bearing - in no small part because these less civilized elves rely on hunting for their food.

Average Nomadic (or 'Wild') Elf (Rgr3/Brb2): CR: 4; Medium-Size Humanoid (Elf); HD 3d8+2d12-5; hp 22; Init +2 (Dex); Spd 40 ft.; AC 16 (+2 Dex, +3 padded, +1 buckler); Atk: Longsword +6 melee (1d8+1), or longbow +7 ranged (1d8); SA: Favored Enemy (Animals), Rage; SQ: Elven traits, Uncanny Dodge; AL: CG; SV: Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +2; Str 12, Dex 14, Con 8, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 9; Skills and Feats: Hide +7, Listen +7, Move Silently +10, Perform +4, Search +6, Spot +7, Survival (Forest) +5; Endurance, Rapid Shot, Run, Skill Focus (Move Silently)

Note that the CR is by rule of thumb.

The elf will rely on his superior senses to detect the foe before he is detected, and flee quickly through the woods. Facing invasion, the elf will probably try to get about 30 of his friends and ambush the danger at a distance from cover or concealment. Since the above elf is probably living out his 4th century, he's in no hurry to risk direct contact with a dangerous foe - elves that do seldom live so long. Generally speaking, a hunting party of 30 or so wild elves is enough to strike fear in most anything. You can imagine how they might seem to a column of 1st level warriors stumbling about in the woods. Even a veteren army doesn't enter elf woods lightly.

In most places where there are large established elven kingdoms, they've arranged for border defences. These consist of magical traps of various sorts called collectively 'the Wards'. They are usually tied to trees in the forest, and they typically do things like create permenent magical fogs, mess with tresspassers sense of direction so that they become lost, cause tresspassers to become confused (and attack each other), or mislead tresspassers with flitting illusions that always flee away from them. Some of the inner ones are more akin to 'Glyphs of Warding' and can do actual damage to the unwary. These are usually set along false paths. The Wards have been slowly built up over thousands of years so that there are literally hundreds of thousands of them forming a dense magical fence around their kingdoms.

However, the Wards require maintenance. Foes of the elves cut down the trees to disarm the wards. Less malicious but foolhardy sorts cut elf wood for lumber. Old trees die. Discharged wards have to be renewed. The job of policing the borders and maintaining the wards falls to the Wardens. Because the Wardens are basically soldiers, they tend to be home to social outcasts, pariahs and misfits that just don't fit in with the other elves. These include misfits by alignment disposition (everything from LN to CE), misfits by social ability (low charisma), the rare half-breed, and non-xenophobic elves that associate with other races. Indeed, the rare elf-friend of another race may be invited into the Wardens.

The Wardens are essentially the elven warrior and adventuring caste. They are a relatively small elite group, with an average level around 6th, well equipped, and usually elite stat arrays. Leaders are generally not higher than 8th level PC classed, and noviates are generally not less than 4th level. For an array of 10,000 square miles, there might however only be 40 or so of them, moving in teams of 10 and actually constituting the bulk of the 'elvish army'. Each group will contain at least one and probably 2 arcane spellcasters, and at least one and possibly 2 divine spellcasters. Essentially then, each team is a fairly large and rather capable adventuring party.

To patrol such a large area, they rely extensively on their natural connection to the world, using animals and nature spirits as their eyes and ears and collecting gossip from them as they move about. They always attack from ambush if possible, from range, preferably in the twilight if their foe is impared at night or in broad daylight if they are impared by the sun, preferably while the invader is bewildered by Wards, and they almost always employ magic. They generally camp in the wild, but they will have prepared a number of well concealed safe places that they can fall back to in the event that they are overran or injured and need to recuperate. If need be, they'll hide and then fall on the enemy rear, killing stragglers, destroying supplies, and otherwise harrassing and making themselves a deadly nuisance. Elves just don't ever stand up and fight. The old saying, which is half-true, goes that an elves always prefer to fight their battles on another day... a hundred years from now.
 
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