Making ability scores more about the character concept.

[DEFCON 1]

If we are assuming for the sake of this thread the following two points are true and are unwanted:

- Players are less likely to create a race/class combo when the race's benefits do not help the class.
- Players will advance their primary stat to 20 first and foremost and thus every PC is the "best" at that thing.

How can you "solve" this unwanted state? And I'm going to ignore for the moment the idea that every PC having a 20 in their primary stat might actually be okay-- for the sake of argument in this thread we'll say that it's not.

For the first point... the unselected race/class combos... the simplest solution is to just not give different races different bonuses to ability scores. Take away the +2/+1 for each of the demihuman races and the +1 to six from the humans... and just start everyone based upon their rolled scores or standard/point buy arrays. At that point there still might be a little bit of self-selection of class based upon the other racial features (so for instance players might still prioritize Dex/Stealth for their Wood Elves because they have Mask of the Wild)... but it does widen the possibility of other ability prioritization. You might find more players who make Strong wood elves for instance.

Then for the second point, the easiest way to make sure PCs do not all max out their primary ability score is to just remove all ASIs. There's no necessity to having PCs see their ability scores get better. The game can and does function fine without them. And in fact... if you don't have ability score increases, it makes those things that DO increase the functionality of those effects which use them even more important. If you don't have ASIs... finding a magic weapon or Gauntlets of ogre power might be the only time besides the rise of your prof bonus where you'll see your permanent Attack Bonus and Damage go up over the course of your PCs life. If you've been stuck at a +6 for many levels (for example)... finding that +1 sword to finally move up to a +7 might be a big deal.

 

[TwoSix]

If we are assuming for the sake of this thread the following two points are true and are unwanted:

- Players are less likely to create a race/class combo when the race's benefits do not help the class.
- Players will advance their primary stat to 20 first and foremost and thus every PC is the "best" at that thing.

I think OP's point is a little deeper than that, it's more an argument that classes prioritizing any one stat to gain mechanical effectiveness limits concepts. Why not let a 16 Int fighter fight as well as a 16 Str fighter, or a 16 Cha wizard be as effective as a 16 Int one?

The obvious counterpoints are effective simulation and verisimilitude, but those don't have to be priorities, especially for a houserule.

 

[TheSword]

Isn't that what the OP was complaining about? Homogenized ability scores among characters already exists. There is no slippery slope.

I also disagree that there is too much balance resting on the existence of ability score bonuses for their removal. Balance among what? Martial classes? In the case of archetypal builds we have combined multiple genres. Eastern Martial Atrs Mysticism and Western Pulp Fiction Barbarians with Quazi-Historical Armored Foot Soldiers and jumped through hoops to make them competative with one another.

The OP was concerned about characters of the same class being too similar. However the proposed solution makes all characters of all classes similar with identical mechanical effects. That sounds terrible.

Who cares if players max out primary stats? They’re still having to choose between an 18 or a feat at 4th level and so on. Feats are good enough that this isn’t an easy decision. However it’s not unreasonable after swinging his greataxe every day the barbarian gets really strong and after tinkering with the underlying fundamental of the universe the wizard gets damned smart.

The balance baked into the system comes from some particularly powerful classes, I.e paladin or Druid needing multiple good stats. Having to make tough choices balances these classes. Similarly caster stats prevents multiclassing casters ruling the roost.

I don’t have any strong feeling on altering the number of ability stats. Less seems to require too much work when so many things rest on stats and also risks further homogenization. More stats adds complexity without seeming payoff (see the old skills and powers)

 

[TwoSix]

The OP was complaining about characters of the same class being too similar. However the proposed solution makes all characters of all classes similar with identical mechanical effects. That sounds terrible.

Characters with the same class already have identical mechanical effects, different stats only affect the magnitude of the effect.

The only difference between a 16 Str 10 Int fighter and 10 Str 16 Int fighter right now is that no one plays the 10 Str 16 Int fighter, unless they have a weird thing for ineffective characters. I agree with the OP that I'd prefer a game where 16 Int fighters and 16 Cha wizards are much more of a thing.

 

[Yaarel]

With regard to ‘races’, the easiest solution is to eliminate ability score improvements, and instead require minimum ability scores.

Human
• Any

Eladrin Elf
• Charisma score minimum 13
• Intelligence score minimum 13

High Elf
• Dexterity score minimum 13
• Intelligence score minimum 11

Drow Elf
• Dexterity score minimum 15

Aquatic Elf
• Strength score minimum 13
• Charisma score minimum 11

Grugach Elf
• Strength score minimum 13
• Dexterity score minimum 11

Wood Elf
• Dexterity score minimum 13
• Wisdom score minimum 11

Orc
• Strength score minimum 15
• Constitution score minimum 13

And so on.



With minimum scores, it is easy to combine races and classes. For example, from highest score to lowest:

Wood Elf Wizard:
Intelligence 15, Dexterity 14, Constitution 13, Wisdom 12, Charisma 10, Strength 8
Drow Elf Wizard:
Dexterity 15, Intelligence 14, Constitution 13, Charisma 12, Wisdom 10, Strength 8
Eladrin Elf Wizard:
Intelligence 15, Constitution 14, Charisma 13, Dexterity 12, Wisdom 10, Strength 8

And so on. Even an orc makes a fine wizard.

Orc Wizard:
Strength 15, Intelligence 14, Constitution 13, Dexterity 12, Wisdom 10, Charisma 8



By using minimums, the characters are both good at classes yet also representative of their race.

 

[Wiseblood]

With regard to ‘races’, the easiest solution is to eliminate ability score improvements, and instead require minimum ability scores.

Human
• Any

Eladrin Elf
• Charisma score minimum 13
• Intelligence score minimum 13

High Elf
• Dexterity score minimum 13
• Intelligence score minimum 11

Drow Elf
• Dexterity score minimum 15

Aquatic Elf
• Strength score minimum 13
• Charisma score minimum 11

Grugach Elf
• Strength score minimum 13
• Dexterity score minimum 11

Wood Elf
• Dexterity score minimum 13
• Wisdom score minimum 11

Orc
• Strength score minimum 15
• Constitution score minimum 13

And so on.



With minimum scores, it is easy to combine races and classes. For example, from highest score to lowest:

Wood Elf Wizard:
Intelligence 15, Dexterity 14, Constitution 13, Wisdom 12, Charisma 10, Strength 8
Drow Elf Wizard:
Dexterity 15, Intelligence 14, Constitution 13, Charisma 12, Wisdom 10, Strength 8
Eladrin Elf Wizard:
Intelligence 15, Constitution 14, Charisma 13, Dexterity 12, Wisdom 10, Strength 8

And so on. Even an orc makes a fine wizard.

Orc Wizard:
Strength 15, Intelligence 14, Constitution 13, Dexterity 12, Wisdom 10, Charisma 8



By using minimums, the characters are both good at classes yet also representative of their race.

I am in favor of removing racial bonuses.
Not so much the racial minimums.

 

[Yaarel]

Note the four stat system emphasizes salient tropes.

Eladrin Elf
• Empathic minimum 13 (charisma for bard)
• Perceptive minimum 13 (intelligence for wizard, manual dexterity for craftsmanship)

High Elf
• Perceptive minimum 13 (intelligence for wizardry, manual dexterity for archery)
• Athletic minimum 13 (melee attacks for swords, reflexes for light armor for physical stunts)

Aquatic Elf
• Athletic minimum 13 (melee attack for fighter)
• Empathic minimum 11 (charisma for sorcerer)

Wood Elf AND Drow Elf
• Perceptive minimum 15 (manual dexterity for archery, keen senses)

Grugach Elf
• Athletic minimum 15 (jump, climb, reflexes for no armor, melee attacks for spear)

Orc
• Tough minimum 15 (size, brute strength, hit points)

 

[Rossbert]

I think it is less about the primaries and more about how certain stats are useful to everyone.

Functionally no one will dump Con.
Most people will not dump Wis (perception).
Non-heavy armor uses will almost always have a high Dex.

These three stats plus your main (especially if it isn't one of those) means that most characters have 2-4 of their stats basically set right away.

 

[Yaarel]

I am in favor of removing racial bonuses.
Not so much the racial minimums.

For me the race minimums are important.

An Orc should feel tough and brutish, and be naturally good at tough brutish classes.

If an Orc was fragile, it would feel abnormal, atypical.



If the races fail to feel different from each other. Then I would prefer to remove race from D&D. In that case, I would make it more like superhero games where race is an afterthought that a player may or may not want for flavor, after deciding what the hero can do.

 

[Yaarel]

For example. Remove race from D&D entirely.

Instead. Let level 1 pick any feat. Some (but not all) feats come with flavor such as ‘Elf ancestry’ or ‘Dragon bloodline’ to explain the ability.