Making ability scores more about the character concept.

[The Crimson Binome]

With my suggestion, there are now 6 different flavors of fighter (plus all the combinations). All balanced.

It's not weird that a fighter can find some benefit from Intelligence or Charisma. It's weird that a fighter doesn't benefit from Strength. If you feint a lot and target their weak point, then you should still get more of an effect by hitting that weak point harder.

 

[mellored]

It's not weird that a fighter can find some benefit from Intelligence or Charisma. It's weird that a fighter doesn't benefit from Strength. If you feint a lot and target their weak point, then you should still get more of an effect by hitting that weak point harder.

Then you roleplay your 14 Cha, 14 Wis, 14 Str fighter who as a mixture of feinting, spotting their weak point, and hitting hitting hard.
While I roleplay my 20 Int fighter as using my knowledge to strike at their vital organs.

That's the point.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Then you roleplay your 14 Cha, 14 Wis, 14 Str fighter who as a mixture of feinting, spotting their weak point, and hitting hitting hard.
While I roleplay my 20 Int fighter as using my knowledge to strike at their vital organs.

That's the point.

I don't care how my character works. I care how the world works, and that it makes sense, and is internally consistent. If literally any combination of stats works out to the equivalent of +4 to hit and damage (as in the original post), then none of those stats actually means anything.

 

[TwoSix]

I don't care how my character works. I care how the world works, and that it makes sense, and is internally consistent. If literally any combination of stats works out to the equivalent of +4 to hit and damage (as in the original post), then none of those stats actually means anything.

Sounds like this would be a poor house rule for you, then.

 

[Satyrn]

I don't care how my character works. I care how the world works, and that it makes sense, and is internally consistent. If literally any combination of stats works out to the equivalent of +4 to hit and damage (as in the original post), then none of those stats actually means anything.

The stat will still mean something, though. The strong fighter will be better at pushing people around.

And once Strength doesn't apply to Damage, we probably ought to up its modifier so that an 18 Str fighter gets more than +4 better chance of shoving someone around than the 10 Strength fighter . . .

. . . and as I wrote that, I thought of a decent compromise: Adjust the modifiers so that the maximum is only +2 with a score of 18-20. Then add a second column where the modifiers go to +10 for a 20. Use that second column for saves and checks, and other things that make a strong character feel strong, while the smaller range used for those "important" rolls we really care about (attacks, damage, etc)

 

[mellored]

I don't care how my character works. I care how the world works, and that it makes sense, and is internally consistent. If literally any combination of stats works out to the equivalent of +4 to hit and damage (as in the original post), then none of those stats actually means anything.

There is more to the game than just to-hit and damage rolls. And "every fighter has 20 str" is not a great world building.

But... Maybe you'd like something like...
To-hit: Wis+Cha+Dex
Damage: Str+Con+Int

 

[The Crimson Binome]

There is more to the game than just to-hit and damage rolls. And "every fighter has 20 str" is not a great world building.

PCs aren't the only fighters in the world, and only high-level fighters have Strength 20.

But... Maybe you'd like something like...
To-hit: Wis+Cha+Dex
Damage: Str+Con+Int

I'd swap Cha and Int, but sure, that works.

 

[mellored]

PCs aren't the only fighters in the world, and only high-level fighters have Strength 20.

When was the last time you need to know the Str of a NPC?

I'd swap Cha and Int, but sure, that works.

however you like. There's an excuse to use any stat for nearly any thing.

 

[Wiseblood]

I don't care how my character works. I care how the world works, and that it makes sense, and is internally consistent. If literally any combination of stats works out to the equivalent of +4 to hit and damage (as in the original post), then none of those stats actually means anything.

I agree.

They should be different. When I suggested feats i meant something similar to how we have feats now. The stronger the pc the more and better strength feats they would get. Non-feat bonuses would be based on level. Numerical bonuses from feats I think should be very rare or non-existant.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

When was the last time you need to know the Str of a NPC?

I can't remember the last session I ran where the Strength of an NPC didn't come up. There was one session that I remember where there wasn't any combat at all, but even that one had an NPC kick down a door.