Making combat more challenging: increase monster level or monster number?

[Pickles JG]

. I'm looking for a repeatable concept that I can apply over a series of encounters;

I would avoid a formula like this & mix things up though with a tendency for "more" rather than "higher level" as indicated by the poll.

Also bumping monster to Elite works like adding more of them (using versoin 2 defences not the original ones that is).

I would not use solos alone depsite the name they need something else there to make things interesting though this might be traps & terrain.

 

[cmbarona]

Based on the fact 92% has currently voted "more monsters" I would say the poll works fine.

I'd agree. There seems to be an overwhelming majority of people not only voting but commenting for more monsters as opposed to higher-level ones. I may consider judicious use of elites, though, to counter some of the extremely legitimate concerns mentioned by Markn. Combat may take a bit longer because the enemies are tougher, but it won't be for two much more frustrating reasons: 1) too many enemies taking their turns, or 2) enemies being too difficult to hit.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, if 'more monsters' comes to you before 'more hazards' than you should be introducing more hazards. Hazards make an encounter more memorable, and introduce challenges beyond a series of combat stats.

As well, sometimes players can commandeer certain hazard/traps and that's just awesome and fun to do some times.

 

[lukelightning]

With higher-level monsters, I always feel like I never hit them, and they always hit me, regardless of any tactical decisions I make (sure, you can try to flank, but that is pretty much only for melee characters, etc.).

 

[Eldorian]

Same number of monsters, same level, have them do more damage or have a slightly better chance to hit. Seriously, combat takes a long time already, but the feeling of danger just isn't there at paragon, I find.

 

[Nifft]

Same monsters, same level, unfavorable environment.

PCs always remember being pelted with flaming poison rain, while the bridge made out of demon-rats tries to bite them.

Cheers, -- N

 

[DanmarLOK]

Slightly on topic although off to the left, I'm trying removing 1/2 level from all defenses, attacks and skills across the board (pc and NPC). This 'flattens' the power curve and lets me use higher level monsters than you can normally without frustrating players. That typically means more powers and or more potent powers for me to play with as a DM and in general 'scarier' monsters not frustrating ones.

In two encounters it seems to mesh well with what I want along with a few other math changes I've made. I did have to write an app to modify CB creatures en masse though as it was too much of a pain to do it for each one by hand. FWIW and definitely YMMV.

 

[Neuroglyph]

Same monsters, same level, unfavorable environment.

PCs always remember being pelted with flaming poison rain, while the bridge made out of demon-rats tries to bite them.

Cheers, -- N

Agreed, even level mobs can seem N+2 or N+3 if you grant them favorable tactical conditions vs. the PCs. Even something as simple as putting them on high ground behind a parapet or behind a door flanked by murder holes, both common fare in real castles and medieval fortifications, and the Characters have a real challenge to overcome before they can brush aside those even level foes.

 

[Mengu]

Depends a bit on party composition.

Party1: Dwarf Guardian Fighter, Goliath Earth Warden, Human Wrathful Invoker, Dragonborn Sorcerer, Kalashtar Shielding Cleric
I'd go with more low level monsters

Party2: Longtooth Shifter Ardent Paladin, Goliath Rageblood Barbarian, Half-orc Two-weapon Ranger, Genasi Tactical Warlord, Warforged Battle Cleric
I'd go with fewer high level monsters

Basically, if you have more defenders and controllers, more lower level monsters are the way to go. If you have more strikers and leaders, few higher level monsters might work better.

Also depends on party size. For a party of 7, few high level monsters become less of a challenge, where a party of 3 going against an equal level elite brute and a high level standard controller is very entertaining.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Don't forget a different mix of monsters. Swap out some monsters for monsters of the same level with different roles, e.g. drop a melee brute or two for artillery or controllers or vice-versa.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar