Making lv 1 Paladin for the first time & need help

[Guilt Puppy]

I have to say, I agree most of all with babomb at the moment. Here's what I suggest:

Con 13
Int 8

Odd-numbered Con works well for high-HD characters: Since you're starting off with 10 hit points + Con at first level, you're going to have some decent hps going on... Then, you bump up Con at 4th or 8th level, as that early bonus starts to become less significant...

Then:

Dex, Wis: 12 in one, 10 in the other... 12 Dex if you want more melee (even Full-Plate allows for a +1 Dex bonus to AC), Wis if you want any spell-casting ability... Spells, while a significant part of the Paladin, aren't essential, esp. at low levels... By higher levels, hopefully you can get a Wisdom-enhancing item so you can use your Holy Sword to whupp up on evil. However, if your party is low on spell-power, maybe go for the Wis 12 just to get a little bit extra going...

Str, Cha: 17 in one, 14 in the other... 17 Str is probably better unless you actually want to downplay melee. 14 Cha gives you some decent Lay on Hands to work with (it's really rarely good for anything more than stabilizing allies: Look at it this way, even with a +4 Cha, in a party of 4 you're going to be healing one hit point per person per level. 10 hps at 10th level? Not much), and saves aren't as important at lower levels, and at higher levels you can start upping that Charisma with magic... There are some cool bene's to having a high Charisma, but chances are that damaging evil is going to be more important (and 14 is definitely not a low Charisma either)...

As I'd build it:

Str 17
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 14

But then, I hate casting spells, and love chopping up evil. YMMV.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Other people have made some very good suggestions. Here's my opinion:

Put the 17 and the 14 in either strength or charisma (either way will work--put the 17 in strength to be a good damage dealer with good (but not great) saves and a little bit of lay on hands. Put the 17 in charisma if you want to be a marginal damage dealer but have great saves and good turning/lay on hands ability.

Put the 13 in Con and the 12 in Wisdom. If the campaign doesn't go too long, it won't matter which goes where because you'll probably bump the 17 up to 18 at 4th level so you won't increase the 13 until 8th level at the earliest. At 8th level, it will make a difference--a 13 wisdom will enable you to increase it to 14 and have 2nd level spells (not that you get many good ones). A 13 con would enable you to get 8 hp from the increase. (And if you plan on multiclassing to something like Templar, Knight of the Middle Circle, or Knight of the Chalice, you won't lose out on spells until you're high enough level to afford a periapt of wisdom (probably 10th level or so).

Your last choices are the 10 and the 8. If you're planning on playing a human (probably your best choice, any other race will either nerf your con, charisma, or strength and you need all of those), you can put the 8 in intelligence and still have enough skills to qualify for a prestige class. On the other hand, putting the 8 in dex wouldn't hurt you too much either. If you think it would be fun to play a Forest Gump paladin, put the 8 in int but if you expect to be an active part of party problem solving, I'd go for the 10 int and lose out on dex.

So, the 4 choices I think best are:

Str 17, Dex 8, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
Str 14, Dex 8, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 17
Str 17, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 14
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 17

They're all viable choices but they will effect what kind of equipment is optimal.

For the high strength, low dex build, you'll probably want to wield a two handed weapon. The AC penalty will make it difficult to get an AC that does much more than stop foes from power attacking you and 18 strength is where the two handed damage bonus starts to be worthwhile.

For the 14 strength, 10 dex build, weapon and shield would be a pretty good choice. You won't get the same milage out of a two handed weapon as the higher strength build and without the dex penalty, the armor class from a shield will make more of a difference.

The other two builds are less biased towards a particular setup but two handed weapons will still be better for the higher strength build.

WRT feats, I wouldn't recommend improved initiative--like most things, initiative bonusses matter more the higher they are. Since your score will still be average no matter what you do, I wouldn't bother. The feat is better spent elsewhere.

My recommendations would be Power Attack and Cleave at first level. If you have a 17 charisma, I'd then pick up Divine Might at 3rd level. Alternately, you might pick up Weapon Focus, EWP (for bastard sword or dwarven waraxe), or prerequisite feats for a prestige class.

Edit: Oh, one last recommendation WRT equipment: buy splint mail with your starting cash (unless you want to wield a greatsword in which case you'll have to settle for chain mail (otherwise you can't afford the greatsword) and don't change armor until you either can afford masterwork fullplate or can loot a suit of banded mail, halfplate, or fullplate from a foe.

 

[David Argall]

go with the book feats

Power attack and cleve are not for paladins, or for much of anyone else for that matter. The extra chance of missing more than balances the extra damage from power attack unless you have a tremendous chance of hitting, and your low level is going to miss a lot anyway. Cleve is useful only when you have lots of minor opponents. If you can't put them down in one swing, cleve is not going to do much.

By contrast, weapon focus is +1 all the time. Big foe or little foe, you hit him more often.

& Improved initiative is more important the lower your dex, not higher. With high dex, there are just so many cases where you are 1st even with a bad roll. My calculations find that going from +0 to +4 gives an advantage on 80 of the 400 possible roll offs.
By contrast, going from +4 to +8 gives you the pull only on an additional 68 rolls. For our dex 8 paladin, he will win the initiative vs normal dex 171/400 times, but with Improved initiative, he gets the edge 284/400 times, a gain 103 times.

Now we might ask if the paladin really needs the faster initiative at all of course. Our spellcaster may well need the speed to get that defensive spell up before the enemy is close enough to make casting fatal, but our paladin is not going to be doing anything that will be vitally different just because the monsters are close now. Better initiative nearly always helps, but the paladin does not seem one it is most helped by.

But the alternative seems more like mounted combat. This assumes the DM is going to have a fair amount of mounted combat in the game, but if he is not and the paladin's warhorse is going to spend the game in the stables, you might as well play a different class anyway.

 

[Nareau]

I'm amazed to see how many people are complaining about how low they think these stats are. They're the equivalent of a 30-point buy! The game was designed for a 25-point buy.

At any rate, I throw my coin in with Kesh. Sorry to repeat everything that's already been said.

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 13
INT 8
WIS 12
CHA 17

Str is important, but not the most important.
Don't much need the Dex boost, as your heavy armor will slightly nerf it anyways.
The Con can be boosted at 8th, giving you the retro hp.
You can be pretty dumb, and get away with it. The skills may hurt, but humans can take it. Besides, depending on the campaign, DM, and style of play, there's a decent chance you won't see many of the Paladin's skills being checked anyways.
Wis should be high enough that you can eventually get those 4th level spells with a cheapo item.
And of course, you'll want the Cha for all the goodies: Lay on Hands, Saves, Smite Evil, Turn Undead. Boost it at 4th level.

Plus, you might want to consider taking Leadership down the line, especially if your mount isn't doing you much good (ie, you're dungeon crawling).

Good luck. Let us know how it works out.

Spider

 

[Hejdun]

I'm amazed to see how many people are complaining about how low they think these stats are. They're the equivalent of a 30-point buy! The game was designed for a 25-point buy.

I agree, these stats are excellent. I can see where someone more used to higher power levels can think that these stats are pretty bad for a paladin, since he doesn't have a "good" stat to put into Strength, but a +2 is very respectable.

 

[mmu1]

I'm amazed to see how many people are complaining about how low they think these stats are. They're the equivalent of a 30-point buy! The game was designed for a 25-point buy.

Right... And at 25 points, Bards, Paladins and Monks, for example, are pathetic. Most classes are OK at 25 points, quite qood in the 30-32 point range, but some just need higher point totals to be on par with the rest of the group.

There's that, and there's also the issue of how the stats are distributed, their point value aside - if this character was actually built using 30 points, he'd be much easier to make into a Paladin. 15, 14, 14, 12, 12, 10, for example, would make for a much stronger character without glaring weaknesses. As it is, he's got that one very high 17, which no one in their right mind making a point-buy Paladin would take, but also a 10 and an 8. When you have a class that has, at most, one dump stat - Intelligence - having a 10 and an 8 really hurts.

 

[reapersaurus]

mmu1 & Kesh have the better approach:
Put the highest into CHA.

Now, if you just want to play a Paladin for the roleplaying factor, than it really doesn't matter what stats you have.

If you want to play a (somewhat) effective Paladin, than a high CHA is a must.
Unless you're concentrating on the CHA-dependant abilities, IMO, you are just playing a weak fighter. And if you aren't interested in the CHA-dependant abilities, than you should play a Fighter/Cleric if you want to be effective - they are hands down more powerful, and you can still take the same roleplaying approach with them.

 

[Angcuru]

You have to walk around with a big booming voice saying :

"What ho!"
"Yes, good Sir Knight."
"Give me a quest!"
"On my honor!"
"Feel the steely kiss of my blade!"

 

[Cedric]

Scrap the paladin thought, be a sorcerer or cleric...heh

Cedric

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Re: go with the book feats

Power attack and cleve are not for paladins, or for much of anyone else for that matter. The extra chance of missing more than balances the extra damage from power attack unless you have a tremendous chance of hitting, and your low level is going to miss a lot anyway. Cleve is useful only when you have lots of minor opponents. If you can't put them down in one swing, cleve is not going to do much.

By contrast, weapon focus is +1 all the time. Big foe or little foe, you hit him more often.

I disagree. I think Weapon Focus stinks (unless you're sure that's the only weapon you're going to be using). You might choose Weapon Focus: Longsword, and find a great Battle Axe, making the feat useless.

I say go Human, with Power Attack and Cleave. Just don't use Power Attack (unless fighting things that are really easy to hit).

Either that, or go with the oft. ignored Toughness (Paladins tend to get damaged a lot), and something like Improved Initiative.

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 13
CHA 17