Marathon, Broadway, and Catacomb: Upcoming D&D Products?

Sword of Spirit · Dec 19, 2017

DEFCON 1 said:
But at the end of 2018... I'm fairly certain we're getting planar information, psionics, artificing, and a high-level adventure somewhere somehow. Because that's everything that's been hinted at by Mearls, Perkins, Stewart, Tito and the rest.

The impression I’ve gotten is that psionics are a way off yet. What causes you to feel otherwise.

darjr · Dec 20, 2017

To add more fuel to the speculation the latest Lore You Should Know on the dnd podcast is about Sigil.

Parmandur · Dec 20, 2017

darjr said:
To add more fuel to the speculation the latest Lore You Should Know on the dnd podcast is about Sigil.

It is interesting, they aren't being very subtle at the big picture level of what kind of material is coming our way, but the exact shape of the products is very mysterious...

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LordEntrails · Dec 20, 2017

And you all do know that all of these products are already written/designed? The adventures and crunch products are probably in final external playtesting and artwork finalization and layout.

I would think that from concept to release is probably 14-16 months for any of these things.

DEFCON 1 · Dec 20, 2017

Sword of Spirit said:
The impression I’ve gotten is that psionics are a way off yet. What causes you to feel otherwise.

They started working on psionics almost two years ago. They wouldn't have done that if they knew they weren't going to release it until 2019, there's no way they'd have people spend 3 years playtesting something for no reason. Notice how they never did a revamp of the very early Eberron UA-- its because they realized they weren't going to release any of that stuff in the next two years, so there was no reason to work on it.

They're working on the Mystic now, because they have a planned release of planar material in Autumn 2018 and they need it ready by then. If their intention wasn't to release it until 2019, they would have put it on hold to really delve into the stuff that will be appearing in that Autumn book.

Also... let's not forget that we the general public are not really here for the game mechanic testing-- that's what they have the alpha testers for. We're here mainly to give our opinions on what feels right about the stuff they make. So they could very well have their Mystic, Artificer, and Ranger re-workings already out in the alpha testing wild, and once they get their formats in a better place they'll then give it to us for our opinions on which disciplines and talents feel good and which don't in probably February or March. Which gives them plenty of time to take our responses and do some small tweaks or remove ones that don't get high marks.

Don't forget... the subclass UAs we received during the playtests heading into Xanathar's had very little that was changed when the book was released. Maybe a tweak here and there. But for the most part, the subclass UAs were in their final forms when we got them and we just told them "I like that one, don't like that one" and they then used that to decide which ones to include. But the work to already get them to those places had already been done prior to their release as UAs. Thus I think the Mystic is in the same place.

Parmandur · Dec 20, 2017

LordEntrails said:
And you all do know that all of these products are already written/designed? The adventures and crunch products are probably in final external playtesting and artwork finalization and layout.

I would think that from concept to release is probably 14-16 months for any of these things.

Well, as of Gameholecon, one book (probably Marathon) was done and facing final editorial work, one (probably Broadway) was well down the road to completion, and one (probably Catacomb) was in development. Perkins just Tweeeted quite recently about finishing the first full draft of the next AP (certainly Broadway).Consider also the turnaround of Xanathar concept testing to final product. I would wager, then, that the playtest material for the past few months (planar and multisetting races) was probably for Catacomb.

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pukunui · Dec 20, 2017

DEFCON 1 said:
They're working on the Mystic now, because they have a planned release of planar material in Autumn 2018 and they need it ready by then. If their intention wasn't to release it until 2019, they would have put it on hold to really delve into the stuff that will be appearing in that Autumn book.

If you've been following my Mike Mearls Reddit AMA thread, you'll know that they've put the mystic on the backburner for now. Both the artificer and the ranger revisions have moved ahead of it.

Parmandur · Dec 20, 2017

pukunui said:
If you've been following my Mike Mearls Reddit AMA thread, you'll know that they've put the mystic on the backburner for now. Both the artificer and the ranger revisions have moved ahead of it.

Based on Mearls comments there, it sounds like a next playtest for Artificer isn't likely before midyear, with Mystic in the future sometime after that. I think 2019 may be the earliest we see either put into a product at that rate. Which is fine, test and iterate until they are right.

But both Crawford and Mearls have been pretty vocal about the Mystic not being ready for primetime and needing some major redesign, just int he last couple weeks even.

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DEFCON 1 · Dec 20, 2017

pukunui said:
If you've been following my Mike Mearls Reddit AMA thread, you'll know that they've put the mystic on the backburner for now. Both the artificer and the ranger revisions have moved ahead of it.

Sure, but that could mean UAs in February, March & April. So what? Just because it could be the third of three UAs doesn't mean its therefore not going to be in the Autumn book.

Hey, I could be wrong. Perhaps they decided rather than to do a single gazeteer which included the basics of multiple settings, they're going to just do a single one. So for instance the November book is like a Khorvaire Adventurer's Guide with player and DM info for Eberron only. If that's the case, then fine, it'll have the Artificer, some races, and dragonmarks only.

Personally I'd be surprised if they did that, because I don't see there being nearly enough Eberron stuff to warrant a 256(?) page book-- unless they're just going to essentially re-print exact same info on the Five Nations for the THIRD time. But if they did that... we'll hear a caterwauling even worse than we've had for SCAG or XGtE. I mean at least SCAG had a "timeline update" to kind of justify a new book with new Sword Coast info. But Eberron's timeline doesn't change. And thus there's going to be absolutely no info different in a 5E book that we don't already have in the 3E and 4E books.

In my mind... at least if you were to put specific chapters of basic gazeteer info about Greyhawk, Eberron, Dark Sun, and Dragonlance (along with all the player character stuff) you could justify re-printing non-updated info about them cause you'd have several other new settings you probably didn't have even if you had most of one or two. But to make a book that was ONLY about Eberron? You can kiss a whole heap of buyers goodbye-- not only because there's an extremely small market for Eberron by itself... but also if most of the book was a basic re-print you'd be buying it merely for the updated character info-- info that anyone who really cares about playing in Eberron has probably already used and updated the UA themselves to use.

But what do I know? Maybe that's what they're doing. Personally I think that'd be STUPID... especially considering that pushes back Dark Sun to what-- 2019? And Greyhawk (if they even ever bothered getting to it) to 2020 and then mayyyyyyyyybe Dragonlance or Mystara in 2021? Pff... no thanks.

pukunui · Dec 20, 2017

DEFCON 1 said:
Sure, but that could mean UAs in February, March & April. So what? Just because it could be the third of three UAs doesn't mean its therefore not going to be in the Autumn book.

I think it'll be much slower than that.

Here are some pertinent quotes from Mike:

Moving the mystic back a bit - it lacks a clear conceptual boundary. The design right now kind of does everything. We're looking at it in terms of settings. What does a psionic-user in Dark Sun do, etc.

Artificer is moving up ahead of it, would like to have something by the middle of the year.

Hoping to get something [for the artificer] out by mid-year, using Eberron as more of an inspiration for the next draft. Tested well, so more refinement than wholesale reinvention.

Hoping for ranger and artificer in first half of the year, mystic depends on a deeper revision to give it a clearer identity, driven by settings like Dark Sun and what it would need.

Ranger is something I want to finish by March, but we'll see.

With that in mind, I honestly can't see us getting anything more than another playtest version of the mystic late next year.

Marathon, Broadway, and Catacomb: Upcoming D&D Products?

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