Martial Practices how can we fix them, systematically?

Oh and [MENTION=8900]Tony[/MENTION]Vargas I definitely want MP that key off of history... particularly Bard style ones... yes I know the 4e bard is arcane.... muttering under my breath again.

Well, I personally never liked the whole 'Arcane' power source (Obscurity is a source of power, really!!!???). Thematically it smacks of nothing, and thus is a catch-all that ate all the other sources, and spawned the ultimate generalist flavorless wizard class.

So I wouldn't cry if Bard wasn't Arcane, and if in fact Arcane just ceased to exist, but within the parameters of what it is, Bards seem to fit within it quite well.
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
Well, I personally never liked the whole 'Arcane' power source (Obscurity is a source of power, really!!!???). Thematically it smacks of nothing, and thus is a catch-all that ate all the other sources, and spawned the ultimate generalist flavorless wizard class.
The description of the arcane power source even seems to dance around ever revealing what it actually is or comes from. It really is power based on obscurity or mystery or something... "Can you explain to me how arcane power works?" "Heavens no! If anyone understood it, it wouldn't work anymore." ...it's all a big conspiracy of ignorance to keep magic working, once the scientists come in and start pinning down physical laws it all goes poof, see?

Seriously, though, Arcana as a skill does do too much. It lets you detect magic, pull magical tricks, cast rituals, and ID more types of monsters than any other skill.

Letting History do some more heavy-lifting sounds fine, I think.
 

The description of the arcane power source even seems to dance around ever revealing what it actually is or comes from. It really is power based on obscurity or mystery or something... "Can you explain to me how arcane power works?" "Heavens no! If anyone understood it, it wouldn't work anymore." ...it's all a big conspiracy of ignorance to keep magic working, once the scientists come in and start pinning down physical laws it all goes poof, see?

Seriously, though, Arcana as a skill does do too much. It lets you detect magic, pull magical tricks, cast rituals, and ID more types of monsters than any other skill.

Letting History do some more heavy-lifting sounds fine, I think.

Yeah, in HoML I just booted it as a power source. There's still an 'Arcana' skill, it just makes you a student of obscure knowledge, presumably much of which IS magical in nature. Actual power sources become Shadow, Life, Spirit, Elemental, and Marshal (though honestly you could call this 'Ki' or something like that if you really wanted). These are places where power actually arises and from which it can be tapped. The wizard class is still unique, it relies purely on knowledge (in that sense you CAN call it 'Arcane') but any specific powers still have to draw from one of the actual power sources. That, of course, leads you rather easily to wizard builds, say something like Illusionist, Necromancer, Invoker, Elementalist, and perhaps some sort of marshal mystic (a bladesinger/swordmage or something). OTOH perhaps these are all just classes and then 'wizard' per-se could actually be more of a theme! That would be a sort of reversal! lol.
 

I like the idea of rituals taking real time to do, and utilities being the quicker magicks. A Utility that let you quickly cast a pre-prepared ritual, though, that could work. Sounds like a Wizard thang.

OK, along the same vein, maybe one of those Feats that lets you swap out a utility.

Martial Cache Feat
Preqs: Martial Practitioner, at least one Martial Utility Power.
Effect: You can gain the Martial Cache power in place of a Martial Utility of your choice. It takes on the level of the power it replaces.
Martial Cache Power
Standard Action Personal
Requirement: You must have previously gathered the materials needed to perform a martial practice, and spent the time needed to perform it in preparation. If the materials cannot be carried, they must be at the place you left them.
Effect: The effects of the Martial Practice occur immediately.

(Yeah, still not a game designer.)

I was going back through here and sorting ideas into my "Ideas and Notes" file, but suddenly this one gave me a NEW idea, what if ALL POWERS were this way? (except maybe your at-wills and such, lets say all utility/encounter/daily at a first cut).

So, you would gain a power by learning some sort of 'practice' or 'ritual', which you would cast, and its effect would be "Until your next long rest you can use this power..."

Think about it. Its actually kinda cool. You could reproduce Vancian casting, as well as existing 4e fighter or wizard or whatever basically. And it covers all the cases you guys have discussed here for prepping, creating a consumable (albeit a limited duration one, but notice that the Executioner Assassin already works this way with its poisons as powers). A lot of permanent items could be recast in this format too, you do something with the item, which requires some expenditure of time, and you gain a power use.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
I).

So, you would gain a power by learning some sort of 'practice' or 'ritual', which you would cast, and its effect would be "Until your next long rest you can use this power..."

Think about it. Its actually kinda cool. You could reproduce Vancian casting, as well as existing 4e fighter or wizard or whatever basically.
2e had a 1st level cantrip spell instead of 0 level cantrip - cast the spell, use cantrips for the duration, which was hrs/level so hit 'All day' pretty quickly.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
A lot of permanent items could be recast in this format too, you do something with the item, which requires some expenditure of time, and you gain a power use.

I gave Grand Master Trainings something i called Regimen they had to do.. it takes and indeterminate amount of time but the idea was that if you quit doing the regimen the skill would fade and was theoretically being replaced by some other regimen...
 


I gave Grand Master Trainings something i called Regimen they had to do.. it takes and indeterminate amount of time but the idea was that if you quit doing the regimen the skill would fade and was theoretically being replaced by some other regimen...

Its an interesting idea, though in essence it is basically the 4e "swap out a power/feat/etc at each level" but maybe a bit more flexible.

Anyway, all of these verge on something pretty much like good old Vancian, you pick which tricks you want to know today, spend some time 'memorizing' them (which can be fluffed in all sorts of ways) and that's your day's options.

So, maybe here are some interesting alternatives, or tweaks. You could perform one of these rituals at any time, and the effects are permanent. That is once you cast ritual X and thus select power N, you have it until you reuse that slot for something else (this implies there are a limited number of slots). Each ritual has a casting cost in Vitality Points (or whatever, HS if you will), and some casting time (say one minute, but maybe some are longer). Thus you don't really want to be changing too often, but its perfectly feasible to have a few 'contingency' options. You could also invoke a power by casting the ritual instantly, so if you suddenly need the 'Remove Curse' power, then you can just cast the ritual on the spot, its slower, but for things you won't use too often, or that have relatively little utility within an 'action sequence' (combat or similar) its a good option.

This also allows for a system where you can avoid forcing people to choose combat options. You can learn any numbers of rituals (practices use the same rules I'm assuming) but you won't have to actually put the powers in slots unless they actually help you in a fight. So, you will be limited to a certain number of combat options, but other options can be picked up (albeit maybe they are slower to use if you don't slot them) and utilized without competing with those.

Now, it will be up to the GM to be reasonable in limiting access to rituals, otherwise characters could have pretty much every non-combat capability known to man, elf, or dwarf, but its no more an issue than any kind of treasure/item, and they can be accounted using the same mechanical limiters (IE an item is really no different from a ritual in practical effect, you just 'activate it' instead of 'performing' it, and I guess it can be taken away, but if you have foci or ritual components then all these things are pretty much equal).
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
The page I lnked to has some nice things I will likely be making it one of the Weekly Wrecan Posts...

One possibility Wrecan suggested was putting your rituals in to cost categories they are more complicated but I think he is trying to address specific benefits and necessary limits for types of rituals and how some could be thrown in to a fast casting slot and others not so much.
 


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