Marv from Sin City - d20 Modern build

[molonel]

Marv

Tough Hero 10, Strong Hero 2

Str 21
Int 10
Wis 9
Dex 12
Con 18
Cha 8

Occupation - Criminal (Bonus Feat - Brawl, Permanent Class Skills - Hide, Move Silently)
Hit points - 10 + 9d10 + 2d8 + 40 = 109

Tough Hero Talents - Remain Conscious, Damage Reduction 3/-
Strong Hero Talents - Melee Smash +1

Saves:
Fort +13
Refl +4
Will +2

Melee +16/+11 Damage 1d8+6
Missile +10/+5

Feats: Alertness, Brawl, Cleave, Endurance, Heroic Surge, Improved Brawl, Improved Damage Threshold, Knockout Punch, Personal Firearms Proficiency, Power Attack, Street Fighting, Stealthy.

Defense 17

Skills: Climb +13, Drive +6, Hide +5, Move Silently +11, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (Streetwise) +3, Spot +11, Listen +3

---

Notes:

There are two problems with this build:

1. He doesn't have enough ranks in Listen or Swim. For Listen, he says about Kevin, "He snuck on me! Nobody sneaks up on me!" when he first encounters him at the farm. For Swim, he demonstrates some proficiency in that when he drives the car off the dock into the water at the beginning of his story. This might be sufficiently covered by his high Constitution and the ability to hold his breath for a long period of time, and his high Strength score would give him the ability to swim far enough to get into the sewer pipe.
2. He doesn't have as many ranks in Hide as I'd like. Marv wasn't a ninja, but he snuck around a lot, and seemed to be able to infiltrate the bishop's compound and the farm successfully. Nobody, except Kevin, ever caught him while he was sneaking.

---

Explanations:

Marv seemed a natural fit for the Tough Hero. One of his defining characteristics is, "I can take it." He's constantly getting dinged and scratched up: jumping through windows and falling several stories onto the street, crashing through the windshield of a police car, knocking down a metal door by repeatedly battering himself against it. In game terms, his scratches and bandages represent his DR. He gets hurt, but he's tough enough that the damage is absorbed as mars on his apperance and scars rather than hit point damage.

He is absolutely ferocious in a brawl. The Brawl feats do not count a person as armed, so his physical attacks will provoke AoO's, but with most combatants in bars and backstreets, Marv is far too tough to be overcome by kicks or punches.

That is, until he fights Kevin. I haven't statted Kevin up in d20 Modern terms, yet, but this is how I see the fight going:

Kevin is a martial artist. He will probably have many levels in Fast Hero, and a high Defense value and Dexterity, making him VERY hard to hit. To represent his nails and his ability to blind people, I would probably create two custom feats, one to represent his sharp nails and his ability to use them for slashing damage, and the other for a special attack which blinds his opponent on a failed save.

The first time Marv and Kevin fight, Kevin gets the drop on him. Marv's Brawl feats, although they allow him to inflict tremendous amounts of damage when he can connect, nevertheless will inspire attacks of opportunity from Kevin every round, giving Kevin an extra attack every round. Kevin also blinds Marv, forcing a 50% miss chance on him. I would probably give Kevin the Spring Attack tree, and high ranks in Tumble, meaning that he can hit a blinded Marv and move away quite easily. The final attack with the sledgehammer represents, to me, a Coup de Grace full round attack. As a GM, I would allow it if someone was blinded and they couldn't detect the location of their opponent, as Marv could never hear Kevin because of a high Dexterity and maxed-out ranks in Move Silently.

In their final fight, Marv distracts Kevin and gets the jump on him. He distracts him, and perhaps even does minor hit point damage in game terms by firing several bullets from his pistol as they close, but Marv isn't as good with a gun as he is with his fists.

Marv gets Kevin into a grapple, and then forces the handcuffs onto him, which prevents him from using spring attack or tumble or moving away from the combat even if Marv is blinded.

 

[Tetsubo]

The PHBII has a Feat that allows an Unarmed strike to be either Slashing or Piercing. No reason to re-invent the wheel...

I thought I saw SOMEWHERE a Feat that allowed a Stunning Fist attack to blind a target rather than stun them... I could be wrong... I am getting older after all... the memory starts to go...

 

[Turanil]

Cool, but I would have made Marv a 16th level guy. His ability to survive such hardships makes him a really exceptionnal guy, and so I think 12th level is not enough. Could he have some levels in Daredevil ? (see some of his stunts)

 

[ValhallaGH]

Not bad at all, though I see a few things. Still, it's pretty darn close to the source material.

First, I think he needs some more Strong Hero levels (at least 3 more, probably 5 more). Marv wasn't mid-level, he was high level.

Second, I really wish I could show you my d20 Modern Skill Groups rules. They'd allow you to fix the skill issues you have with this build (and I completely agree with you regarding those). Also, it would allow you to give him some Escape Artist, a skill he desperately needs ranks in since he untied himself with the first skill check, and even some Treat Injury, which he would need to both bandage himself after his harbor swim and to keep Kevin alive while he performed field amputations on the man.
Unfortunately I don't have any web space to host them in.

Third, I question some of your Talent choices. I see an Energy Resistance (electricity) and probably a Second Wind rather than Remain Concious; it's not that he was still concious despite being in negatives but rather that he made the necessary saves and still had positive hp despite the coup de grace that is the electric chair. This point is open to debate, and your version may actually be closer to the truth of the matter.

Fourth, I feel that he needs an Improved Initiative and maybe one Combat Martial Arts (though that's questionable). He couldn't have always rolled 20 on his initiative but he almost always got the drop on his opposition, even when they were aware of him.

Finally, you may want to squeeze in a couple Dedicated levels. He was extremely devoted to his friends, and it would give you the excuse to take Skill Emphasis (Listen).


With regards to your notes:
Brawling damage is still non-lethal, meaning that it is meaningless until a save is forced and failed. With a -4 to the attack it can be made lethal but that just doesn't seem right for the way Marv worked. CMA and hideous melee damage could easily put a mook's head into a wall.

Kevin's sledgehammer to the head was a Knockout Blow (see non-lethal combat). This can be done, as a full round action that provokes AoO, on any opponent that is denied their dex to defense, such as a blinded opponent.
A feat similar to D&D Stunning Fist, that imposed 1d4 rounds of blindness rather than stunning, seems completely appropriate and easily balanced.
I'd have the fingernails simply be the flavor of his attacks rather than inventing a mechanic to have him deal slashing damage. It's normal combat martial arts damage but his hand attacks are described as being slashes with his fingernails rather than punches or palm strikes.

In the final bout I'd say that Marv imposed a grapple that left Kevin denied his dexterity bonus to defense, leaving him vulnerable to Improved Knockout Punch and the subsequent 1d4 rounds of unconciousness. Marv simply knocked him out again as necessary.

 

[molonel]

Not bad at all, though I see a few things. Still, it's pretty darn close to the source material.

Thank ya kindly. It's my first build in d20 Modern. You gave some excellent feedback, by the way.

First, I think he needs some more Strong Hero levels (at least 3 more, probably 5 more). Marv wasn't mid-level, he was high level.

I'm still learning the system. The reason I put him at 12th level is that why I see Marv as tough - probably one of the finest warriors the street could produce - he is essentially untrained, undisciplined, rough and relies on bashing things into a pulp with his fist. When that fails, THEN he puts some thought into it. But he's not the best, and he CAN be beaten, as the fight with Kevin showed.

Second, I really wish I could show you my d20 Modern Skill Groups rules. They'd allow you to fix the skill issues you have with this build (and I completely agree with you regarding those).

I wish I could see them, as well.

Also, it would allow you to give him some Escape Artist, a skill he desperately needs ranks in since he untied himself with the first skill check, and even some Treat Injury, which he would need to both bandage himself after his harbor swim and to keep Kevin alive while he performed field amputations on the man.

Ah, bingo! Good point! I'd forgotten that.

"I tied those knots myself!"

Unfortunately I don't have any web space to host them in.

If you have them in a Word document or PDF, you can email them to me at molonel(at)hotmail.com

Third, I question some of your Talent choices. I see an Energy Resistance (electricity) and probably a Second Wind rather than Remain Concious; it's not that he was still concious despite being in negatives but rather that he made the necessary saves and still had positive hp despite the coup de grace that is the electric chair. This point is open to debate, and your version may actually be closer to the truth of the matter.

I can see him having Second Wind, sure. Energy Resistance (electricity) I don't see, since it's not something he had a particular resistance too. He was just so damn tough and stubborn. Or at least, that's how I see it. Nothing translates perfectly into game mechanics, and the point is certainly a matter of perspective.

Fourth, I feel that he needs an Improved Initiative and maybe one Combat Martial Arts (though that's questionable). He couldn't have always rolled 20 on his initiative but he almost always got the drop on his opposition, even when they were aware of him.

Fair point on the Improved Initiative.

For Combat Martial Arts, again, I see him as more of a brawler than a trained martial artist. That was the difference - in my opinion, once again - between him and Kevin.

Kevin's sledgehammer to the head was a Knockout Blow (see non-lethal combat). This can be done, as a full round action that provokes AoO, on any opponent that is denied their dex to defense, such as a blinded opponent.
A feat similar to D&D Stunning Fist, that imposed 1d4 rounds of blindness rather than stunning, seems completely appropriate and easily balanced.

Ah, you're right on the Knockout Blow. Thank you. I'm still learning the d20 Modern system, so I wasn't familiar with that mechanics. Yes, that's perfect.

In the final bout I'd say that Marv imposed a grapple that left Kevin denied his dexterity bonus to defense, leaving him vulnerable to Improved Knockout Punch and the subsequent 1d4 rounds of unconciousness. Marv simply knocked him out again as necessary.

That makes sense.

Again, thanks for the feedback.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Thank ya kindly. It's my first build in d20 Modern. You gave some excellent feedback, by the way.

You are most welcome and I am glad that I was able to be helpful.

I'm still learning the system. The reason I put him at 12th level is that why I see Marv as tough - probably one of the finest warriors the street could produce - he is essentially untrained, undisciplined, rough and relies on bashing things into a pulp with his fist. When that fails, THEN he puts some thought into it. But he's not the best, and he CAN be beaten, as the fight with Kevin showed.

Which is absolutely fair, but Marv already had a long and impressive history as one of Basin City's most brutal musclemen. Marv is the reason Manute has a fake eye; Marv was doing a favor for Clyde that day. The episode with Goldie was the penultimate challenge of Marv's career, and it was impressive enough that I think he was at least fifteenth level when he faced it. Combined with a few other things I'm sorely tempted to say that Marv was the highest level 'hero' in the entire Sin City saga (excepting Miho) and was only matched in level by a rare handful of the oppositon such as Kevin.

If you have them in a Word document or PDF, you can email them to me at molonel(at)hotmail.com

Done and done.

Ah, you're right on the Knockout Blow. Thank you. I'm still learning the d20 Modern system, so I wasn't familiar with that mechanics. Yes, that's perfect.

No problem at all. Even those very familiar with the rules often forget about that option. The feats of the same name simply speed the action up, the aren't a monopoly on it.

Once again, this is a very good start.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I would give Marv mental class levels. He did seem pretty good at crafting traps (but not that good, since Kevin avoided them all). Dedicated would, of course, boost his Listen and Spot. See if you can find the Street Warrior AdC in the Urban Arcana SRD; that might fit as well.

I agree he should be higher level. I don't think his stats need to be that high - although, to be fair, throwing police officers one-handed out of a car does give that impression

This is one problem you have with converting fictional characters to Modern; usually they have so much physical presence people forget their mental abilities. If you want him to do everything he can do onscreen and in the comics, he needs those mental levels. Furthermore, Marv is a party unto himself, so he really needs those levels.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Is 18 Con enough for Marv?

 

[molonel]

Marv 2.0

Marv

Tough Hero 10, Strong Hero 2

Str 21
Int 12
Wis 9
Dex 14
Con 18
Cha 8

Move 30'
Initiative +6

Occupation - Criminal (Bonus Feat - Brawl, Permanent Class Skills - Hide, Move Silently)
Hit points - 10 + 9d10 + 2d8 + 40 = 109

Tough Hero Talents - Second Wind, Damage Reduction 3/-
Strong Hero Talents - Melee Smash +1

Saves:
Fort +13
Refl +5
Will +2

Melee +16/+11 Damage 1d8+6 (plus Streetfighting once per round +1d4, and Power Attack)
Missile +11/+6

Feats: Alertness, Athletic, Brawl, Cleave, Heroic Surge, Improved Brawl, Improved Damage Threshold, Improved Knockout Punch, Knockout Punch, Personal Firearms Proficiency, Power Attack, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Street Fighting, Stealthy.

Defense 18

Skills:

Climb +12, Drive +5, Escape Artist +5 (CC), Hide +10, Listen +6 (CC), Move Silently +10, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (Streetwise) +4, Spot +9, Swim +8, Treat Injury +1.

Skill Ranks:

Climb +5, Drive +3, Escape Artist 3 (CC), Hide +6, Listen +5 (CC), Move Silently +6, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (Streetwise) +3, Spot +8, Swim +1, Treat Injury +2.

---

Explanations:

Marv seemed a natural fit for the Tough Hero. One of his defining characteristics is, "I can take it." He's constantly getting dinged and scratched up: jumping through windows and falling several stories onto the street, crashing through the windshield of a police car, knocking down a metal door by repeatedly battering himself against it. In game terms, his scratches and bandages represent his DR. He gets hurt, but he's tough enough that the damage is absorbed as mars on his apperance and scars rather than hit point damage.

He is absolutely ferocious in a brawl. The Brawl feats do not count a person as armed, so his physical attacks will provoke AoO's, but with most combatants in bars and backstreets, Marv is far too tough to be overcome by kicks or punches.

That is, until he fights Kevin. I haven't statted Kevin up in d20 Modern terms, yet, but this is how I see the fight going:

Kevin is a martial artist. He will probably have many levels in Fast Hero, and a high Defense value and Dexterity, making him VERY hard to hit. To represent his nails and his ability to blind people, I would probably create two custom feats, one to represent his sharp nails and his ability to use them for slashing damage, and the other for a special attack which blinds his opponent on a failed save.

The first time Marv and Kevin fight, Kevin gets the drop on him. Marv's Brawl feats, although they allow him to inflict tremendous amounts of damage when he can connect, nevertheless will inspire attacks of opportunity from Kevin every round, giving Kevin an extra attack every round. Kevin also blinds Marv, forcing a 50% miss chance on him. I would probably give Kevin the Spring Attack tree, and high ranks in Tumble, meaning that he can hit a blinded Marv and move away quite easily. The final attack with the sledgehammer represents a Knockout Blow (see the Combat document in the d20 Modern SRD).

In their final fight, Marv distracts Kevin and gets the jump on him. He distracts him, and perhaps even does minor hit point damage in game terms by firing several bullets from his pistol as they close, but Marv isn't as good with a gun as he is with his fists.

Marv gets Kevin into a grapple, and then forces the handcuffs onto him, which prevents him from using spring attack or tumble or moving away from the combat even if Marv is blinded. The GM might adjudicate that being handcuffed to someone might deny you a Dex bonus to AC, leaving Kevin vulnerable to Marv's Improved Knockout Punch.

---

Automatic: Strong Hero - Personal Firearms Proficiency, Tough Hero - Simple Weapons Proficiency.

1st level (2) - Alertness, Stealthy.
Criminal - Brawl.
3rd level - Improved Initiative.
6th level - Improved Damage Threshold.
9th level - Heroic Surge.
12th level - Improved Knockout Punch.

Strong Hero - Cleave.
Tough Hero - Athletic, Improved Brawl, Knockout Punch, Street Fighting, Power Attack.