[Maximized, Chained] Ray of Enfeeblement

[Pax]

Ah, but then, Li - even with Hyp's reading, you can Chain a Melf's Acid Arrow.

I always pictured Chain Spell working exactly like Chain Lightning: each secondary arc is a one-stop, seperate process. IOW, the spell hits, then "MIRVs" into multiple secondary effects, each one selecting a single additional target ...

And Hyp, just ebcause they fixed one of the two feats, without properly correcting the other one, doesn't change the obvious original intent of the feats. Same author, same wording, same intended applicability.

 

[apsuman]

Thanee: as a GM, my houserule is: Empower only affects the actual random element, not the straight addition portion(s), of any spell's effects. Thus, an Empowered Magic Missile spell would deal 1+(1.5 x 1d4) per missile, not 1.5x(1d4+1) per missile.

Thus, a Ray of Enfeeblement cast by a 10th level caster would give you 10+(1.5 x 1d6), rather than 1.5x(1d6+10).

whoops! I missed your first line about the house rule.

I deleted my unnecessary text. Move along nothing to see here...

 

[allenw]

Ah, but then, Li - even with Hyp's reading, you can Chain a Melf's Acid Arrow.

I don't think so. Melf's doesn't have a "Target" entry; it has "Effect: One arrow of acid."

 

[andargor]

My non-scientific research offers this list as Chainable spells...

(Chained Maze, cool! )

Andargor

Acid Spittle [Sor/Wiz 1] (R&R)
Acidic Curse [Sor/Wiz 1] (BoEM)
Animal Messenger [Brd 2, Drd 2, Rgr 1] (RSRD)
Animal Spy [Animal 3, Clr 3, Drd 3, Rgr 3] (R&R)
Animal Trick [Drd 0, Rgr 1] (MotW p82)
Animate Necrosis [Sor/Wiz 5] (BoEM2 p38)
Animate Shadow [Sor/Wiz 3] (R&R)
Baleful Polymorph [Adp 5, Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5] (RSRD)
Banish Shadow [Clr 3] (R&R)
Bath of Purity [Sor/Wiz 4] (R&R2)
Belsameth's Strife [Brd 4, Clr 5, Sor/Wiz 4] (R&R)
Bind Item [Sor/Wiz 4] (BoEM)
Binding [Sor/Wiz 8] (RSRD)
Binding Winds [Drd 5] (MoF p80)
Blackflame [Sor/Wiz 8] (R&R)
Bleeding Wound [Sor/Wiz 2] (N:BtG)
Blind Mark [Sor/Wiz 2] (R&R2)
Blindness/Deafness [Brd 2, Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 2] (RSRD)
Bolt of Conjuring [Sor/Wiz 3] (BoEM)
Burning Sight [Sor/Wiz 2] (R&R2)
Call Animal Companion [Drd 1] (R&R2)
Censure of Mesos [Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9] (R&R2)
Chains of Vengeance [Sor/Wiz 4] (BoEM)
Chamber [Sor/Wiz 3] (MotP p34)
Chardun's Torments [Clr 3, Evil 3] (R&R)
Charm Animal [Drd 1, Rgr 1] (RSRD)
Charm Monster [Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 4] (RSRD)
Charm Person [Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1] (RSRD)
Chill Blood [Sor/Wiz 1] (N:BtG)
Choke [Sor/Wiz 2] (T&B p86)
Coma [Clr6, Sor/Wiz 6] (BoEM)
Command [Adp 1, Clr 1] (RSRD)
Command Undead [Sor/Wiz 2] (RSRD)
Confusion, Lesser [Brd 1] (RSRD)
Convert [Clr 9, Missionary 9, Trickery 9] (R&R)
Countermoon [Drd 3] (MotW p86)
Create Greater Undead [Clr 8, Death 8, Sor/Wiz 8] (RSRD)
Create Undead [Clr 6, Death 6, Evil 6, Sor/Wiz 6] (RSRD)
Creeping Cold [Drd 2] (MotW p86)
Curse of Ill Fortune [Clr 2 (Beshaba)] (MoF p86)
Curse of Solidity [Clr 2, Pal 2] (R&R2)
Curse of Terror [Brd 3, Clr 3] (R&R)
Curse of the Firefly [Clr 2, Drd 2, Rgr 1] (R&R2)
Dagger of Undeath [Clr 9, Sor/Wiz 9] (R&R2)
Declaration of Death [Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 6] (R&R)
Demand [Sor/Wiz 8] (RSRD)
Destruction [Clr 7, Death 7] (RSRD)
Discord [Brd 0] (R&R2)
Dismissal [Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 5] (RSRD)
Disquietude [Brd 1] (MoF p90)
Distort Shadow [Sor/Wiz 0] (R&R)
Distort Speech [Brd 1] (MoF p90)
Dominate Animal [Animal 3, Drd 3] (RSRD)
Dominate Monster [Sor/Wiz 9] (RSRD)
Dominate Person [Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 5] (RSRD)
Doom [Blk 1, Clr 1] (RSRD)
Drown [Drd 6] (MoF p90)
Eagle Song [Brd 4] (R&R2)
Enkili's Luck [Clr 2, Chaos 2] (R&R)
Enkili's Prank [Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Trickery 2] (R&R)
Enlarge Person [Sor/Wiz 1, Strength 1] (RSRD)
Eyebite [Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 6] (RSRD)
False Bravado [Drd 3] (MotW p88)
Fanning the Flames [Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2] (R&R2)
Feeblemind [Sor/Wiz 5] (RSRD)
Feedback [Sor/Wiz 4] (BoEM2 p42)
Filch [Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0] (R&R2)
Finger of Death [Drd 8, Sor/Wiz 7] (RSRD)
Flensing [Sor/Wiz 8] (FR p70)
Flesh to Stone [Sor/Wiz 6] (RSRD)
Foil Tracer [Sor/Wiz 3] (BoEM)
Freedom [Sor/Wiz 9] (RSRD)
Gaurak's Corpulence [Sor/Wiz 4] (R&R2)
Geas/Quest [Brd 6, Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 6] (RSRD)
Greater Creeping Cold [Drd 7] (MotW p89)
Greater Familiar [Sor/Wiz 5] (R&R)
Greater Spectral Hand [Sor/Wiz 4] (R&R2)
Grimwald's Graymantle [Sor/Wiz 5] (FR p71)
Guilt [Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1] (BoEM)
Gutroot [Drd 5, Plant 5] (R&R)
Hammer and Anvil [Sor/Wiz 7] (R&R2)
Harmonic Chorus [Brd 4] (S&S p92)
Harrier [Clr 4, Drd 3] (DotF p87)
Healing Interdiction [Drd 8, Sor/Wiz 8] (R&R2)
Hideous Laughter [Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 2] (RSRD)
Hold Animal [Animal 2, Drd 2, Rgr 2] (RSRD)
Hold Monster [Brd 4, Law 6, Sor/Wiz 5] (RSRD)
Hold Person [Brd 2, Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 3] (RSRD)
Holy Beacon's Answer [Pal 4] (R&R)
Horizikaul's Boom [Sor/Wiz 1] (MoF p100)
Imbue Guardian [Sor/Wiz 8] (BoEM)
Imbue Shadow [Clr 5, Death 5, Evil 5] (R&R)
Improved Portal Alarm [Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4] (MotP p35)
Inferno [Drd 5] (MoF p102)
Insanity [Sor/Wiz 7] (RSRD)
Insidious Rhythm [Brd 6] (S&S p93)
Interplanar Message [Clr 3] (MotP p36)
Know Protections [Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1] (MoF p104)
Know Vulnerabilities [Brd 4, Clr 4] (MoF p104)
Launch Bolt [Sor/Wiz 0] (MoF p105)
Launch Item [Sor/Wiz 1] (MoF p105)
Mage Hand [Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0] (RSRD)
Magic Fang, Greater [Drd 3, Rgr 3] (RSRD)
Magic Jar [Sor/Wiz 5] (RSRD)
Make Manifest [Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 6] (MotP p36)
Manaspear [Magic 4, Sor/Wiz 3] (R&R)
Maze [Sor/Wiz 8] (RSRD)
Memory Rot [Drd 5] (MoF p108)
Mending [Adp 0, Brd 0, Clr 0, Drd 0, Sor/Wiz 0] (RSRD)
Miasma [Drd 4] (MotW p91)
Mind Blank [Protection 8, Sor/Wiz 8] (RSRD)
Modify Memory [Asn 4, Brd 4] (RSRD)
Monstrous Thrall [Domination 9] (DotF p87)
Nightmare [Brd 5, Sor/Wiz 5] (RSRD)
Nightmare Lullaby [Brd 2] (MoF p110)
Nybor's Gentle Reminder [Sor/Wiz 1 (Red Wizard)] (MoF p110)
Nybor's Mild Admonishment [Sor/Wiz 3 (Red Wizard)] (MoF p111)
Nybor's Stern Reproof [Sor/Wiz 7 (Red Wizard)] (MoF p111)
Nybor's Wrathful Castigation [Sor/Wiz 8 (Red Wizard)] (MoF p111)
Obscure Shadow [Sor/Wiz 1] (R&R)
Phantasmal Killer [Sor/Wiz 4] (RSRD)
Polymorph Other [Sor/Wiz 4, Adp 4] (T&B p94)
Portal Alarm [Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2] (MotP p36)
Portal Beacon [Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1] (MotP p37)
Power Sight [Drd 1] (MotW p92)
Primal Release [Sor/Wiz 8] (BoEM)
Probe Thoughts [Mind 6, Sor/Wiz 6] (DotF p88)
Prorogate Death [Sor/Wiz 6] (BoEM2 p47)
Puppeteer [Brd 3] (MoF p112)
Pyrotechnics [Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2] (RSRD)
Raise Death Hulk [Sor/Wiz 7] (N:BtG)
Reduce Person [Sor/Wiz 1] (RSRD)
Reshape Shadow [Sor/Wiz 1, Trickery 1] (R&R)
Rie's Lustful Gaze [Sor/Wiz 2] (R&R2)
Sacrificial Heart [Clr 6, Death 6] (R&R)
Salamar's Quiet Contemplation [Brd 1, Drd 1, Sor/Wiz 1] (R&R)
Scarecrow [Drd 0] (MotW p93)
Scramble Portal [Sor/Wiz 4] (MotP p39)
Sending [Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 5] (RSRD)
Sever [Drd 7, Sor/Wiz 7] (R&R)
Shadow Horror [Sor/Wiz 3] (N:BtG)
Shadow Mastery [Sor/Wiz 3] (N:BtG)
Shadow Twin [Sor/Wiz 8] (R&R)
Shadow Well [Sor/Wiz 4] (MoF p116)
Shatter Soul [Clr 9] (R&R)
Shield Other [Clr 2, Pal 2, Protection 2] (RSRD)
Shockwave [Clr 0, Drd 0] (R&R)
Shockwave Strike [Clr 1, Drd 1, Earth 1, Strength 1] (R&R)
Simbul's Synostodweomer [Sor/Wiz 7] (MoF p119)
Snake Staff [Drd 5] (R&R2)
Sneeze [Brd 0, Drd 0, Sor/Wiz 0] (R&R)
Soul Disk [Sor/Wiz 8] (R&R2)
Soulstrike [Sor/Wiz 7] (R&R)
Spark [Drd 0, Rgr 1, Sor/Wiz 0] (R&R)
Speak with Dead [Clr 3] (RSRD)
Spectral Stag [Clr 2 (Malar)] (MoF p120)
Speed Swim [Drd 1, Rgr 1, Sor/Wiz 1] (MoF p121)
Spirit Watch [Sor/Wiz 1] (R&R2)
Spy Senses [Sor/Wiz 3] (R&R2)
Suggestion [Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 3] (RSRD)
Talen's Maligned Performance [Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4] (R&R2)
Teleport Coordinates Transfer [Sor/Wiz 6] (BoEM)
Transmute Flesh to Shadow [Sor/Wiz 7] (R&R)
Trap the Soul [Sor/Wiz 8] (RSRD)
Undead Conduit [Sor/Wiz 3] (N:BtG)
Undead Crew [Brd 5, Death 6, Sor/Wiz 6] (R&R2)
Undead Lieutenant [Sor/Wiz 3] (MoF p129)
Undead Torch [Sor/Wiz 3] (MoF p129)
Unhand [Sor/Wiz 1] (BoEM2 p51)
Vangal's Wounding [Clr 3] (R&R)
Veil of Lust [Brd 2, Entrancement 2, Sor/Wiz 3, Trickery 2] (R&R2)
Water's Embrace [Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 4] (R&R)
Web Sphere [Sor/Wiz 1] (R&R2)
Weeping Fool [Sor/Wiz 2] (R&R2)
Wound [Sor/Wiz 1] (N:BtG)

 

[James McMurray]

You missed Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic. Combined with Greater Arcane Sight you get:

Target 1: Your enemy
Target 2: Your enemy's friend
Target 3: Your Enemy's other friend
Targets 4-x: Whichever spell effects are most detrimental to you on any of your foes.
Leftovers: Any items whose auras make it look like they'll be bad for you.

Targetting someone and their spells gives you two chances to take out the buffs. Taking out their items (most items have very low caster levels) just adds salt to the wound. This tactic (combined with a house ruled Mordenkainen's Disjunction) generated a house rule over at Exodus that prevents Chaining of dispel effects.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And Hyp, just ebcause they fixed one of the two feats, without properly correcting the other one, doesn't change the obvious original intent of the feats. Same author, same wording, same intended applicability.

Hmm? They fixed Split Ray, because as written, it doesn't allow you to split rays. They didn't need to fix Chain Spell, because as written, it chains spells just fine.

As long as they specify a single target. Which Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't.

-Hyp.

 

[Falling Icicle]

And Hyp, just ebcause they fixed one of the two feats, without properly correcting the other one, doesn't change the obvious original intent of the feats. Same author, same wording, same intended applicability.

Well said. Just because there is another feat that lets you split a ray doesn't mean that the same shouldn't be true of chain spell. After all, one adds 0 levels to the spell, the other adds 3. They are not mutually exclusive. They do very different things.

As has been pointed out, this is a very badly worded feat. Though I do concede that, as written, the feat would not allow rays. Let's hope we see a 3.5 version soon that clears this up.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well said. Just because there is another feat that lets you split a ray doesn't mean that the same shouldn't be true of chain spell.

No, absolutely.

Though I do concede that, as written, the feat would not allow rays.

That's why the same shouldn't be true of Chain Spell.

-Hyp.