D&D 1E Mearls on AD&D 1E

[Ristamar]

I have no doubts that AD&D (1e) is still fun to play, particularly with an experienced "old school" DM.

That being said, I have little desire as a player to draw maps anymore in any edition of D&D.

 

[JonnyP71]

I think most people played 1E like advanced B/X. Pick class and races roll d6 for initiative go.

We still do... I simplify surprise and initiative to B/X rules when playing 1E.

I've just packed my stuff away after DMing a 5 hour session of 1E for a group of 20-30 year olds. We've been playing 1E for over a year now, and they often revert to their old 5E mindset of 'FIGHT' - 1E always kicks them in the teeth for that.

Tonight we had a lengthy session in which they were trying to sneak into a well guarded Fort*. They were in full on 1E mode 'Avoid a fight, run away, hide, think, plan'. There was a tangible sense of fear as they were confronted by a ghostly apparition. THey were nervous about a layer of old oil caked with dust coating a guardroom floor. And they gave a patch of thick mud smelling of manure a very wide berth.

It was great.

(*The adventure is A2 - Secret of the Slavers Stockade)

 

[darjr]

Luke really should stream some of his games cause I don't the spirit of ADnD can be expressed in text.

That is such a good idea. I feel that there is much about how the creators of the game played it that isn’t easily transferred in text that should be captured. Luke is one of those folks. I don’t know if this ephemeral things can’t be written or designers don’t think to or they turn into “rules” when they are and the magic is lost.

 

[iserith]

I think you're being way too dismissive of what he actually said.

When I played D&D, because the rulebooks are so opaque, a large part of the game was rife was subsystems, idiosyncratic approaches to microcosms of encounters, and exploring the game was about exploring these subsystems. This ladder required a save vs. petrification to descend due to moisture in the air, that ladder required Wisdom checks every 20' to ascend because of the fear of heights. Sometimes you would find a gem of a ruling tucked away in the corners of a book, and knowing when to apply that ruling was an "aha" moment that brings a certain sense of satisfaction. Other times an adventure would contain marvelous mini-games that brought challenge and uniqueness to each scenario. 1e was rife with rules and systems like that due to its very nature.

In my mind, D&D gradually moved away from the arbitrariness that 1e required, and 3e finally codified everything in a unified system. Whereas in 1e a Death Dog might do 1-10 per attack "just because", maybe because the designers wanted it to be really freaking deadly, in 3e it would just do 1-6 because medium creatures do 1d6 with a bite attack. Things became much more formulaic and, in the process, may have lost some of the charm of the earlier systems. But unquestionably the game lost the aspect of rules exploration that was so prevalent for me and my friends, and that was always something I enjoyed. It's a pleasure all its own that is hard to replicate in any other way.

As I said, a rules system can either support or detract from the archetypal stories that are being told. But I would say it's not the rules that are the crux of the experience.

 

[JonnyP71]

1e didn't use THAC0. If he'd had to cope with THAC0, the whole experience would have been torpedoed.

1E DID use THAC0.

Every monster was listed with a 'To Hit AC 0' in the 1E DMG.
Some early tournament modules had it listed in the pregen character info and monster rosters.
The exact abbreviation THAC0 was used in a lot of modules form 1983 onwards.

Yes it was muddied by repeating numbers in the tables, but they were rarely seen in practice, as few DMs would throw AC-6 monsters at low level PCs!

Long before 2E appeared.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yes it was muddied by repeating numbers in the tables, but they were rarely seen in practice, as few DMs would throw AC-6 monsters at low level PCs!

I'm sorry, that's not merely 'muddied.' The 1e attack matrixes and 2e's THAC0 were quite different. I recall the DMG appendix with compressed monster statistics, but never seeing the abbreviation, and THAC0 wasn't just an abbreviation in 2e, it was a methodology that gave different results from the 1e attack matrixes.

 

[Schmoe]

As I said, a rules system can either support or detract from the archetypal stories that are being told. But I would say it's not the rules that are the crux of the experience.

Maybe I used too many words. The rules themselves are the crux of the experience.

 

[iserith]

Maybe I used too many words. The rules themselves are the crux of the experience.

No, you didn't. I'll tell you if you've used too many words. Having played AD&D 1e as well, I just happen to disagree.

 

[Schmoe]

No, you didn't. I'll tell you if you've used too many words. Having played AD&D 1e as well, I just happen to disagree.

Ah, I see, then I didn't clearly understand. I suppose the literal interpretation of his words matches my play experience pretty well, which is why I think that's what he actually meant. At the end of the day, though, we're both just interpreting what he said.

 

[iserith]

Ah, I see, then I didn't clearly understand. I suppose the literal interpretation of his words matches my play experience pretty well, which is why I think that's what he actually meant. At the end of the day, though, we're both just interpreting what he said.

It doesn't match mine. It could also be that a literal interpretation isn't necessarily the best way to understand what appears to be a transcendent experience. I guess we'll see what comes of his exploration of it.