Medium characters grappling large creatures?

[BookBarbarian]

And that's an ok way to rule, but I'd hesitate to call it the right way since there is nowhere in the rules that say that rules earlier in the book supercede rules later in the book.

There is however "specifics beats general".

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think it you would need very long rules to cover every eventuality - grappling a gelatinous cube?

 

[WaterRabbit]

And that's an ok way to rule, but I'd hesitate to call it the right way since there is nowhere in the rules that say that rules earlier in the book supercede rules later in the book.

There is however "specifics beats general".

Uh, no.

Exceptions Supersede General Rules. When an exception and a general rule disagree, the exception wins. There isn't an exception in the grapple rules on how much a character can drag or lift.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Exceptions Supersede General Rules. When an exception and a general rule disagree, the exception wins. There isn't an exception in the grapple rules on how much a character can drag or lift.

The Carrying rules say I cannot drag something larger that 30 times my strength score, but the grappling rules say I can move a grappled creature but at half my speed.

Moving a Grappled Creature: When you move, you can drag or carry the Grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.

So whether I can or can not will depend on a ruling on the GM.

I can see it going either way, and wouldn't care as long as the DM is consistent. What I don't agree with is the Carrying rules somehow having precedence because they occur earlier in the book. I don't think that argument has any merit.

 

[cooperjer]

The Carrying rules say I cannot drag something larger that 30 times my strength score, but the grappling rules say I can move a grappled creature but at half my speed.

So whether I can or can not will depend on a ruling on the GM.

I can see it going either way, and wouldn't care as long as the DM is consistent. What I don't agree with is the Carrying rules somehow having precedence because they occur earlier in the book. I don't think that argument has any merit.

I'm away from my book, but does the drag rules specifically use words that would indicate they apply to a creature? In my opinion, Crawford edits the book in such a way that he might use words like items, or objects, etc., which in his mind are not creatures. The drag rules might not apply at all to interaction with creatures if this is the case.

With respect to grapple of large creatures, there is usually a significant strength difference that helps compensate. However, most creatures are not proficient in athletics or acrobatics to avoid the grapple. In my game, this usually does not come up in play, but if it starts to become a tactic by the players to win, and then they complain that combat is too easy, I start giving creatures proficiency in Athletics.

 

[Yunru]

Given that there are no known weights to creatures, and that there is no system in place to calculate how much a creature resists or not, nor how the grappled creature being capable of self-movement plays into things, I'm gonna say go with what's written:
You can grapple anything within one size of you. You can move them, but you move at half speed.

 

[Gwarok]

I don't read it that way. I read it as saying "carrying or dragging a grappled creature is an option but you still have to follow the rules for carrying and dragging." Where are the rules for carrying and dragging? Earlier in the PHB.

From the PHB:

Block and Tackle. A set of pulleys with a cable threaded through them and a hook to attach to objects, a block and tackle allows you to hoist up to four times the weight you can normally lift.

Which is why I never leave home or grapple without my trusty block and tackle

 

[Dualazi]

The problem is that the modifier is so small compared to the die being rolled, that the stronger creature's strength doesn't matter that much. Let's compare a Str 19 ogre with a Str 10 peasant. The ogre has a +4, so the peasant will successfully grapple the ogre 30% of the time. Now take a reasonably strong human (Str 14) and you are looking at 38.25%. Throw in a low level proficiency in Athletics and you are at 47.5%.


Advantage and disadvantage for size difference is a good solution IMO.

It's a good solution if you want people to never bother grappling, I guess. You already have to give up an attack to attempt a grapple, which prior to 5th level can take a PC's entire turn essentially. Even if you succeed, it just sets their speed to 0 and little else. Sure, you can knock them down too for easy advantage, but that requires a second attack use and a second opposed check. It's one of 5th edition's successes that grappling is a reasonable action for PCs to take and has an appreciable sense of success. This is a large contrast to the garbage of 3.x grappling, in which you needed a flowchart to figure out what steps to take and was useless unless you were heavily invested in it.

Someone else said it in the thread as well, but if your encounter is being ruined reliably because a large creature was successfully grappled, it's not the rules that need to change.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The Carrying rules say I cannot drag something larger that 30 times my strength score, but the grappling rules say I can move a grappled creature but at half my speed.



So whether I can or can not will depend on a ruling on the GM.

I can see it going either way, and wouldn't care as long as the DM is consistent. What I don't agree with is the Carrying rules somehow having precedence because they occur earlier in the book. I don't think that argument has any merit.

In the event of a conflict, apply common sense. If you can't budge it when it is dead, you aren't going to be able to budge it when it is alive and uncooperative!

Hypothetically, a creature could be large and not very heavy though, such as a gas spore or giant vulture.

 

[Oofta]

If you go buy the 3.5 SRD, an ogre weighs 350 pounds. A horse on the other hand can weigh from 840-2,200 pounds according to google.

So personally I'd say you could generally drag a bipedal large creature if you are reasonably strong but not a quadruped. Why? It's simple and it doesn't make any sense that I could drag a live horse but not a dead one. Especially one that people keep beating for no reason. Poor horse.