D&D 4E Melee Training Restored

[Garthanos]

Here's my total list, which contains both practices and rituals in your parlance.

I do at least have SOME based on athletics

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I do at least have SOME based on athletics

Yeah, I have to work on that. The problem I have is that these are supposed to be "things you can use in a skill challenge to explain why you used ability score or skill X to solve a problem instead of skill Y." where Y would be the obvious choice.

So, I have had a hard time finding reasons why Athletics is useful INSTEAD OF something else, but I'm sure I can come up with some. The problem with the way 4e uses practices is it is just a list of 'tricks' you can pull with your skills, which is OK, except I didn't NEED that, because of course you can pull trick X, Y, or Z with your skill, you're a BAD ASS!

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, I have to work on that. The problem I have is that these are supposed to be "things you can use in a skill challenge to explain why you used ability score or skill X to solve a problem instead of skill Y." where Y would be the obvious choice.

So, I have had a hard time finding reasons why Athletics is useful INSTEAD OF something else, but I'm sure I can come up with some. The problem with the way 4e uses practices is it is just a list of 'tricks' you can pull with your skills, which is OK, except I didn't NEED that, because of course you can pull trick X, Y, or Z with your skill, you're a BAD ASS!

Heroes Shout, Hurl into Space, Wrestling with Death....


Quasi-Instant Social connections, Sequestering/Hiding an item, Preventing death "after they die" .

I think we have a need for permission to achieve mythic extremes. This needs communicated a Mage gets it easily almost by default.

 

[Garthanos]

If we start enumerating stunts for high end abilities
(strength over X lets you do things like these)
we might to let those mythic stuff happen....
but are you going to enumerate long distance
teleporting that way?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Heroes Shout, Hurl into Space, Wrestling with Death....


Quasi-Instant Social connections, Sequestering/Hiding an item, Preventing death "after they die" .

I think we have a need for permission to achieve mythic extremes. This needs communicated a Mage gets it easily almost by default.

Yeah, I probably do need to do a pretty big think on my 'mythic' tier practices. I could see some of these working for Intimidation too. "I'm so bad assed I chased death away!" and "Nobody DARES to deny me anything!" etc.

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, I probably do need to do a pretty big think on my 'mythic' tier practices. I could see some of these working for Intimidation too. "I'm so bad assed I chased death away!" and "Nobody DARES to deny me anything!" etc.

Especially since your title is Heros of Myth and Legend. You doubly need to assure the awesome is explicitly enabled and encouraged. If your title was Adventurers Guild not so much or Lost Treasure finders not so much.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Especially since your title is Heros of Myth and Legend. You doubly need to assure the awesome is explicitly enabled and encouraged. If your title was Adventurers Guild not so much or Lost Treasure finders not so much.

Yeah, well, I guess I could write a game where you started out as a Mythic Figure. That certainly isn't unheard of, in effect most supers games work like that. I, for whatever reason, chose to model my game on a progression from distinctly mortal hero to myth. So I think I did have to begin with at least a solid notion of how heroic tier would function. It seems to be inevitable that play starts there and so its conceptions get solidified first before higher tiers.

Maybe it would be better if I designed Mythic Tier first, I mean really, maybe it would!

 

[Garthanos]

Especially since your title is Heros of Myth and Legend. You doubly need to assure the awesome is explicitly enabled and encouraged. If your title was Adventurers Guild not so much or Lost Treasure finders not so much.

Theres always the name "Map makers who run away as much as possible and steal whenever they can til spell casters can kick everythings ass" but that is too long and the theme has already been taken.

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, well, I guess I could write a game where you started out as a Mythic Figure. That certainly isn't unheard of, in effect most supers games work like that. I, for whatever reason, chose to model my game on a progression from distinctly mortal hero to myth. So I think I did have to begin with at least a solid notion of how heroic tier would function. It seems to be inevitable that play starts there and so its conceptions get solidified first before higher tiers.

Maybe it would be better if I designed Mythic Tier first, I mean really, maybe it would!

I generally think I can make heroic tier characters in 4e feel pretty legendary or mythic ... how one handles minions and how both players and DMs presents things can be a huge difference. Although things could definitely be adjusted to make some of that easier.

 

[Marshall]

I also put insight on the skill list of the class with insightful presence on its potential feature list because you know.

However I really do not know how to fix the issue in a broad sort of way. Even if I made a 4e descendant system of my own.

Honestly?!?

Get rid of the Fighter as an archetype. "Fighter" is a first level title. Its little better than Grunt, Peon, Thug or Girl with Sword. Eventually the Fighter grows up and actually makes something of herself. THAT is the class the character belongs to.