D&D (2024) UA 8 Barbarian Discussion

[Chaosmancer]

I do think Brutal Stikes "you can forgo Advantage on the next attack roll" needs rewarded.

As written, if an ally gives you advantage, you still lose it to push.

Something like "you forgo advantage from Reckless Attack" would be much better.

I think I would go the opposite.

Decouple it from Reckless attack, then if you have advantage, you can give it up from your first attack for the Brutal Strike. This way you don't have to suffer the penalty of Reckless, if an ally is giving you advantage due to something or other.

 

[Pauln6]

I think I would go the opposite.

Decouple it from Reckless attack, then if you have advantage, you can give it up from your first attack for the Brutal Strike. This way you don't have to suffer the penalty of Reckless, if an ally is giving you advantage due to something or other.

As far as the playtest goes I think linking it to Reckless Attack is more interesting. In the same way that the rogue gives up sneak attack damage for battle tactics, the barbarian, who is resistant to damage, gives up AC for tactics. At will battle control for martials is a new concept and could be tricky to manage especially when you consider that fighters, who should be masters of battlefield control, still get relatively limited at-will options by comparison. The fighters' one advantage seems to be that their extra attacks may allow them to do moderately decent combos.

 

[mellored]

As far as the playtest goes I think linking it to Reckless Attack is more interesting. In the same way that the rogue gives up sneak attack damage for battle tactics, the barbarian, who is resistant to damage, gives up AC for tactics.

Agreed.

Tradeoffs are good.

 

[Chaosmancer]

As far as the playtest goes I think linking it to Reckless Attack is more interesting. In the same way that the rogue gives up sneak attack damage for battle tactics, the barbarian, who is resistant to damage, gives up AC for tactics. At will battle control for martials is a new concept and could be tricky to manage especially when you consider that fighters, who should be masters of battlefield control, still get relatively limited at-will options by comparison. The fighters' one advantage seems to be that their extra attacks may allow them to do moderately decent combos.

Fair points, I just am not happy when an ally giving me advantage is seen as a bad thing.

Because I still have to use Reckless attack, so I still need to suffer the downsides of it, to use Brutal Strike. Or I can not use reckless and get the advantage. It feels a bit bad to me. Much nicer if it works a bit like sneak attack. You have advantage? You can give up that advantage to activate this ability. Reckless attack is still the most reliable way to do that, but now it isn't the only way

 

[mellored]

Fair points, I just am not happy when an ally giving me advantage is seen as a bad thing.

Pretty sure that's not RAI, and will be fixed.

I.e.

If you use Reckless Attack, you can forgo "it's" Advantage...

 

[Pauln6]

Pretty sure that's not RAI, and will be fixed.

I.e.

If you use Reckless Attack, you can forgo "it's" Advantage...

Yes, it doesn't apply disadvantage. So advantage from another source still works. The AC penalty is the cost.

 

[Horwath]

My only real beef with Brutal Strike, do we actually want a strategic choice like this for the barb?

To me the strength of the barb is....its just dumb fun. Players rage, reckless attack, and go nuts. You throw yourselves into everything because you feel invincible. It just works.

Is adding a "stop and think" type effect for this kind of class the best answer?

This!

i would even combine Rage and Reckless attack as 1st level features that you MUST use reckless attack during rage.
Add that base rage gives resistance to ALL damage to compensate that you always give advantage to attacks vs. you.

maybe add, if you already have advantage in addition to advantage from reckless attack, double your damage bonus from rage.

then Brutal strike can be: when you hit with your 1st attack during your attack action and you are raging add "effect X".

 

[OB1]

Fair points, I just am not happy when an ally giving me advantage is seen as a bad thing.

Because I still have to use Reckless attack, so I still need to suffer the downsides of it, to use Brutal Strike. Or I can not use reckless and get the advantage. It feels a bit bad to me. Much nicer if it works a bit like sneak attack. You have advantage? You can give up that advantage to activate this ability. Reckless attack is still the most reliable way to do that, but now it isn't the only way

I'm with you on this. Brutal should work any time you have advantage by giving up the second roll (with no way to cheese it by removing advantage from one source and still getting it from another). Reckless still means the Barbarian can do it anytime they want as long as they grant advantage to others, and importantly, allows them to Brutal Strike twice on their turn. Help or Guiding Bolt can still let them Brutal Strike once without using Reckless, while Fairy Fire or something similar would allow them to do it twice. Giving up advantage is plenty of penalty most of the time for this ability, don't need to compound it by forcing the Barb to go reckless just to get one use.

 

[Pauln6]

I'm with you on this. Brutal should work any time you have advantage by giving up the second roll (with no way to cheese it by removing advantage from one source and still getting it from another). Reckless still means the Barbarian can do it anytime they want as long as they grant advantage to others, and importantly, allows them to Brutal Strike twice on their turn. Help or Guiding Bolt can still let them Brutal Strike once without using Reckless, while Fairy Fire or something similar would allow them to do it twice. Giving up advantage is plenty of penalty most of the time for this ability, don't need to compound it by forcing the Barb to go reckless just to get one use.

I dunno. We're just talking mechanics there. Thematically, Brutal strikes are when you go absolutely crazy all in. The other examples you mention are far more tactical. That should be fighter shtick.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I dunno. We're just talking mechanics there. Thematically, Brutal strikes are when you go absolutely crazy all in. The other examples you mention are far more tactical. That should be fighter shtick.

But the fighter is just going to use those "more tactical" sources of advantage for advantage, while the Barbarian still has Reckless Attack. And the same "I've got them where I want them, so this is the wind up" mentality works with these other sources.