Men, women, insecurity & alcohol [** NEW UPDATE, DEC 2005 **]

[LostSoul]

Strangely enough, those are the guys who seem to win the battles in the night clubs throughout the world. A lot of women go home with that personality type, but, I wonder, how often do those "interactions" actual go anywhere serious?

I wonder if guys like that care.

And there isn't anything dishonourable about wanting to score. Telling lies to get there is.

 

[fusangite]

Me too. I don't like "mind games" and quickly lose interest in any woman who seems to live her "social" life based on them.

I've used this before but I never tire of quoting myself. This is basically like trying to date in Brazil and complaining that you don't want to date women who speak Portuguese.

In any genuinely important area of life such as dating, employment or politics, communication is coded. Why? Because, as a species, we talk about important things in code. Sorry but as a member of the human race, you're saddled with the "game."

I'm not any good at it either but trying not to play is about the only gesture more futile than playing it badly.

Strangely enough, those are the guys who seem to win the battles in the night clubs throughout the world. A lot of women go home with that personality type, but, I wonder, how often do those "interactions" actual go anywhere serious?

Yes. They often do.

I'd rather be who I am and be miserable than be a total phony and be led around like a mindless dumb ass.

Well, some people get a charge out of being
"right" over happy. I'll choose happy any day thanks very much. If you were actually given a choice between sexual success and being miserable, you'd make the same choice as me. You're just deeming yourself somehow morally virtuous based on your lack of romantic success because you haven't been presented with the alternative.

 

[RangerWickett]

I just read Fu's post, so I really have no idea what this thread is about, but I wanted to share the following amusing story.

5 years ago, working at a college job, I met a cute girl who I became friends with. I was not interested in dating her, because I had a girlfriend, and even after I broke up with my girlfriend, I was still in the mindset of her being a friend.

1 year ago, we both graduated, and she went to Europe.

3 months ago, I met up with her again, and with the benefit of distance, I realized I was actually quite enamored with her. Alas, she was dating someone.

3 weeks ago, I found out she was single again.

1 and a half weeks ago, she came over to my apartment to give me a ride to a social function, and we talked about our respective dating situations. I figured it was a little early to ask her out, since I wasn't sure if she was over her last guy yet.

1 week ago, at a party, I, my roommate, and one of my friends realized we were the only 3 unattached men in our social circle. We ended up discussing women we were interested in, and we all named this girl. It was oh so generously decided that, since I had known her longest, I got first 'dibs' on asking her out, but I was warned that I had only a week before they made their move.

Half a week ago, I asked her out, to see if she wanted to go to the new Georgia Aquarium, and was shot down.

Last night, my roommate asked her out, to see if she wanted to go to the new Georgia Aquarium. He has a date with her next weekend.

*amused grin*

 

[BOZ]

heh heh... that's life. but at least you had a gentlemen's agreement - some fellows would not play that fairly.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Me too. I don't like "mind games" and quickly lose interest in any woman who seems to live her "social" life based on them.

Then you might as well pack it in, because to one degree or another all women play mind games.

I don't even mean that maliciously, it's just the way things are done. the mind games you are talking about let a girl get a "feel" for how you would play out as a romantic partner while leaving her with an "out" should she decide against it.

You don't like that. Understood.

It's not going away. Hope you understand.

Strangely enough, those are the guys who seem to win the battles in the night clubs throughout the world. A lot of women go home with that personality type, but, I wonder, how often do those "interactions" actual go anywhere serious?

Well, as one of "those guys", let me confirm for you that yes, indeed, the interactions occasionally go somewhere serious.

But that's not (or shouldnt be) the only acceptable goal. I prefer to think of the entire business as a continuum. some girls I will date casually, those with whom I stay for awhile are treated more seriously, further up the ladder=more serious.

Just because a dalliance didn't result in a lifelong committment doesn't mean it was an abject failure. It was what it was.

In a similar thread to this ages ago, someone was describing how counter-productive my behaviour was by saying something like "Jerks get the girl, but the nice guys get the loving wife" or something.

That's wrong. Something closer to the truth (and more applicable to this thread's idiom) is "Game players get the girl, and can choose how to proceed from there".

If you don't get the girl to begin with, you aren't going to "get serious" or whatever your goal is. You will be stuck at the starting line, getting more desperate, and more self-righteously indignant with every passing night.

I'd rather be who I am and be miserable than be a total phony and be led around like a mindless dumb ass.

Turning personality flaws into points of pride is one of the oldest dodges in the book.

"Miserable, but REAL" is a great recipe for becomeing a cranky, lonely old virgin, complaining about women and pretending you are OK with the fact that you are alone.

If you are actually Ok with beng alone--while admitting that it makes you miserable (ike you did above)--then I think you are probably a masochist.

No judgements being made there, but it's not a kink I think most folks would substitute for a fun relationship.

And it's even sadder if it's not choice, but really your only viable option because you won't "play the game"

 

[Teflon Billy]

Actually, I wish I had said it as well as Fusangite did in the post before mine.

 

[Knightfall]

I've used this before but I never tire of quoting myself. This is basically like trying to date in Brazil and complaining that you don't want to date women who speak Portuguese.

In any genuinely important area of life such as dating, employment or politics, communication is coded. Why? Because, as a species, we talk about important things in code. Sorry but as a member of the human race, you're saddled with the "game."

I guess, in my fervor of replying to ssampier's situation, I didn't clarify enough what I meant. The truth is when I say I don't speak "Code", I was referring more to the concept of presenting oneself (on either side of the equation) as being less than truthful or trustworthy. The concept of being a jerk/bitch in the worse possible way imaginable.

Call "that" the Vile Code ^TM, if you will. I do understand the basics of the use of code in society, as a species thing. (I was in computer sales for a long time.) I know that code, but don't get many chances to practice the craft. (I don't mean just relationships.)

Anyone who knows my situation, as I've stated in the past on other threads, understands what I mean.

I'm not any good at it either but trying not to play is about the only gesture more futile than playing it badly.

I guess you can say, right now, I'm a bit of an outsider watching others play, as I have more important issues to deal with. Thus, my point of view is a bit skewed.

"right" over happy. I'll choose happy any day thanks very much. If you were actually given a choice between sexual success and being miserable, you'd make the same choice as me. You're just deeming yourself somehow morally virtuous based on your lack of romantic success because you haven't been presented with the alternative.

Frustration in all aspects of my life have led me to become very jaded and overtly protective of my feelings. Thus, I tend to rant about the injustice of the Code of Life ^TM more than I should.

Am I miserable? Yes, but not because of a lack of sexual/romantic success. (And not every day.) Do I consider myself morally virtuous? God No!

Then you might as well pack it in, because to one degree or another all women play mind games.

I don't even mean that maliciously, it's just the way things are done. the mind games you are talking about let a girl get a "feel" for how you would play out as a romantic partner while leaving her with an "out" should she decide against it.

TB, you're one of the many people here on EN World that makes this place great. I know you're intent is to be helpful, even if it is with a blunt object.

You don't like that. Understood.

It's not going away. Hope you understand.

Sigh. I understand. Like I said, life is tough right now for a lot of reasons, and that frustration found its way into my post. I won't ever believe in the Vile Code ^TM, but I understand and accept the Code of Life ^TM as being part of society. However, that doesn't mean I have to like "certain aspects" of even that code.

Well, as one of "those guys", let me confirm for you that yes, indeed, the interactions occasionally go somewhere serious.

As I suspected. Plus, I must point out I rarely go anywhere near night clubs anymore. I just don't find such places entertaining. I'm happier spending time with friends at the movies, in pool halls, and at sports bars (hockey, hockey!).

And, as "not" being one of "those guys", let me say that from the other side of the fence, it can be more than a little frustrating to watch you succeed time and time again. However, I'm sure you've been rejected from time to time. "Without failure, you cannot learn."

But that's not (or shouldnt be) the only acceptable goal. I prefer to think of the entire business as a continuum. some girls I will date casually, those with whom I stay for awhile are treated more seriously, further up the ladder=more serious.

Just because a dalliance didn't result in a lifelong committment doesn't mean it was an abject failure. It was what it was.

In a similar thread to this ages ago, someone was describing how counter-productive my behaviour was by saying something like "Jerks get the girl, but the nice guys get the loving wife" or something.

That's wrong. Something closer to the truth (and more applicable to this thread's idiom) is "Game players get the girl, and can choose how to proceed from there".

If you don't get the girl to begin with, you aren't going to "get serious" or whatever your goal is. You will be stuck at the starting line, getting more desperate, and more self-righteously indignant with every passing night.

Wise, blunt advice. As for me, there isn't a game for me at all right now, but I've already stated why, so I'll leave it at that.

I'll simply say "I'm not a jerk, but I'm not a nice guy either."

Turning personality flaws into points of pride is one of the oldest dodges in the book.

"Miserable, but REAL" is a great recipe for becomeing a cranky, lonely old virgin, complaining about women and pretending you are OK with the fact that you are alone.

Okay, you got me.

I let my troubles and personal flaws influence what I wrote. However, they are "my biases" for a reason. My life is not your life, and vice versa. I've lived through things, some that I handled fine, some that I didn't handle at all. It has made me torn between the things in life I love and the things I cannot stand.

Basically, I'm a mess. However, unlike 10 years ago, I now understand why I'm a mess and am trying to find a way too work through the worst of it. Meds, therapy, family & friends, exercise, and, yes, even EN World.

Also, I now have come to realize what "being alone" really means. A relationship would be great, but just being without a girlfriend (or a wife) doesn't even come close to being truly alone. I've been there -- my own fault, no one elses' -- and I nearly destroyed myself.

Anyway...

If you are actually Ok with beng alone--while admitting that it makes you miserable (ike you did above)--then I think you are probably a masochist.

No judgements being made there, but it's not a kink I think most folks would substitute for a fun relationship.

And it's even sadder if it's not choice, but really your only viable option because you won't "play the game"

I'm not alone as long as I have my family and friends. I am miserable for more than I could ever say here, but I'm trying to get better. There is a lot of sadness in my life, but it has to do more with recent events -- one in particular. (Christmas will be hard this year.)

However, I'm not okay being without some sort of loving relationship, but I know it won't solve the sadness. Would it make my life better? I would like to believe that? I use to believe it. I don't know how I lost that belief, but I did. It makes me anger and it makes my heart ache with sorrow. I suspect that is has been a gradual process over the last 15 years, due to more reasons than I could ever go into here (or probably should).

Regards,

Knightfall1972

 

[glass]

All's well that ends well. At least you didn't date her and waste time discovering she's not the one.

Yeah, if there's any time-wasting to be done, I'll do it here at ENworld...


glass.

 

[Staffan]

a new definition for phone... lovin.

From a Swedish female stand-up comedienne:
"I don't get the thing about phone sex. I mean, after you've put it in, you can't hear the other one anymore!"

(Or something like that, it's been a looong time since I saw that one).

 

[fusangite]

Half a week ago, I asked her out, to see if she wanted to go to the new Georgia Aquarium, and was shot down.

Last night, my roommate asked her out, to see if she wanted to go to the new Georgia Aquarium. He has a date with her next weekend.

*amused grin*

To quote my favourite TV show (censored for ENWorld), "Sometimes she goes. Sometimes she doesn't go. That's the way she goes, boys. The f***ing way she goes."