Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Part two is tomorrow and it may get interesting. Here is what Mike just posted on Twitter:

"Turns out this flight was exactly what I needed to crack the warlord. It’ll be fun to talk about tomorrow on the Happy Fun Hour."

 

[Hussar]

The warlord I played in 4e, as I recall, was doing something "tactical" pretty much every round. Either moving an ally with wolf pack tactics, granting attacks a la Hammer and Anvil or various other goodies. So, to me, that's primary of what a warlord should be doing - if we want a class that just buffs and heals, well, we already have the bard for that. Action granting, to me, is what sets warlords apart.

 

[chunkosauruswrex]

If you think a fighter subclass has enough, there are already 2: the battlemaster and the purple dragon knight. Bard or Paladin won't work, because if someone was OK with just refluffing spells they'd already be playing those.

But we shouldnt stop pushing for a full class. Which is why its frustrating to see requests for one shouted down. It's like some kid in Oliver piping up "Actually I think we're good with what we have. No more for us please!". If you're satisfied, then great. No need to hold the rest of us back. You're right, we'll probably doomed to getting another half ass subclass and nothing more. But that's not because the design space isnt there, it's because of people being willing to settle and WOTC's fear of 4E haters.

Being against class bloat does not mean that you are against the warlord.

 

[smbakeresq]

The warlord I played in 4e, as I recall, was doing something "tactical" pretty much every round. Either moving an ally with wolf pack tactics, granting attacks a la Hammer and Anvil or various other goodies. So, to me, that's primary of what a warlord should be doing - if we want a class that just buffs and heals, well, we already have the bard for that. Action granting, to me, is what sets warlords apart.

I believe the "problem" with the Warlord concept is it should have never been giving healing powers as that steps all over the cleric prime ability. If the warlord gives out THP that's a different story and more appropriate to the theme and concept.

Likewise, the Warlords should be a support and buffing class, but combat focused much more than Bard, which is the best at the social pillar support and also supports the healing, recovery, magical and skill based things while chipping in for direct combat.


The niche that Warlord can fill is the combat buffing role through granting damage bonuses, to hit bonuses, initiative and movement bonuses and granting THP, which models being "inspired." In combat right now there party wide and group wide to hit bonuses through bless spells and damage bonuses through the Mantle spells, the Warlord can replicate those in a more focused but bigger way through a secondary stat + proficiency bonus to one attack. I could see using the flanking rules in the DMG as a Warlord class feature, ADV + rider to damage would be good benefit. THP is done through Inspiring leader and a few other things, something like that can be replicated. Granting reaction based attacks and moves is already there also in BM moves and other things also. Putting them into one thematic package is what is needed and wanted.

Doing the above and basing it off CHR ("Follow me to victory!!!!") or INT ("Listen close, here is how we win") is the 2 packages to go, with STR or DEX as a main or co-main stat would work best, you are a combatant after all. Make the range of all powers to be must see or hear and understand the Warlord as a limiting factor, this increases the value of communication within the party and staying together (and makes Rary's telepathic bond a great ritual.)

 

[mellored]

I believe the "problem" with the Warlord concept is it should have never been giving healing powers as that steps all over the cleric prime ability. If the warlord gives out THP that's a different story and more appropriate to the theme and concept.

The 4e warlord didn't step over the cleric.
It's healing was only ever healing surges (hit die) + bonus. Where a cleric got flat healing.

Specifically, it was.

Inspiring Word
Minor action
Burst 5 (Burst 10 at level 11, and burst 15 at level 21)
The target can spend a healing surge. If the target does so, he or she regains 1d6 additional hit points.
Level 6: 2d6 additional hit points
Level 11: 3d6 additional hit points
....
You can use this power twice per encounter. But only once per round"


So adjusting to 5e's numbers, style, and hit dice, you would get...


Inspiring word:
As a bonus action, you can let an ally with 20' spend a hit die. If the target does so, they regain an extra 1d4 hit points. You can use this feature twice per short rest.
At level 5, they can spend 2 hit dice and gain a 2d4 bonus. The range increases to 30'.
At level 11, they can spend 3 hit dice and gain a 3d4 bonus. You can use this power 3 times per short rest.
At level 17, they can spend 4 hit dice and gain a 4d4 bonus. The range increases to 40''


Inspiring Warlord sub-class.
...
Level 6: When you use Inspiring word, you can add your Charisma modifier to the amount healed.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I believe the "problem" with the Warlord concept is it should have never been giving healing powers as that steps all over the cleric prime ability.

Nonsense. Druids & Paladins have been healing since 0e, Rangers since 1e, Bards since 2e, they could all use WCL in 3e, and they all heal in 5e.

The Band-Aid Cleric's niche-protection stayed functional right through the TSR era, because the others just couldn't keep up with the healing needs of a party the way a cleric could, particularly at lower levels (only the cleric & paladin could heal at 1st level, and the paladin just a few points, while a cleric with good WIS could cast CLW three times). Since 3.0, the cleric has been marginally better at healing, but there have been many alternatives that could shoulder that burden in its stead, should no one wish to play the Cleric (or, in 3.x, if the Cleric insisted on going all CoDzilla on the campaign).

 

[GreenTengu]

I believe the "problem" with the Warlord concept is it should have never been giving healing powers as that steps all over the cleric prime ability. If the warlord gives out THP that's a different story and more appropriate to the theme and concept.

Anyone who played a video game can tell you that the holy trinity is tank, healer, and damage. If the Cleric is literally the only actually effective healer in the game, it is an absolutely essential class for every single party. The whole point of the Warlord was to make the Cleric non-essential, or in 5E, allow Clerics to spec as anything but a healer without screwing over the party.

The tank, or defender, was a concept built around damage prevention and target redirections. If the Warlord did that, it would just be identical to the fighter. There are also dozens of situations, situations which are encountered frequently, in which damage absolutely cannot be avoided and no amount of buffing damage will make up for or prevent those situations.

Also, any number of monster abilities can render a PC inoperative in a single action and if there is only one class in the game that can reverse or prevent that-- then the party absolutely MUST have that class and any other class invented that is supposed to be an alternative but has absolutely no way of reversing these effects or restoring HP may as well not exist. It isn't an alternative at all-- it is simply and flatly a trap for inexperienced players who don't know better.

So whether you like it or not, whatever the Warlord does, it must be able to be a support class option that can do all of the essential support options that a Cleric or Bard can do. Of course, it doesn't need to have the turn undead ability or offensive spell-casting abilities of the cleric nor the illusion magic or superior skills of the Bard.

 

[smbakeresq]

The 4e warlord didn't step over the cleric.
It's healing was only ever healing surges (hit die) + bonus. Where a cleric got flat healing.

Specifically, it was.

Inspiring Word
Minor action
Burst 5 (Burst 10 at level 11, and burst 15 at level 21)
The target can spend a healing surge. If the target does so, he or she regains 1d6 additional hit points.
Level 6: 2d6 additional hit points
Level 11: 3d6 additional hit points
....
You can use this power twice per encounter. But only once per round"


So adjusting to 5e's numbers, style, and hit dice, you would get...


Inspiring word:
As a bonus action, you can let an ally with 20' spend a hit die. If the target does so, they regain an extra 1d4 hit points. You can use this feature twice per short rest.
At level 5, they can spend 2 hit dice and gain a 2d4 bonus. The range increases to 30'.
At level 11, they can spend 3 hit dice and gain a 3d4 bonus. You can use this power 3 times per short rest.
At level 17, they can spend 4 hit dice and gain a 4d4 bonus. The range increases to 40''


Inspiring Warlord sub-class.
...
Level 6: When you use Inspiring word, you can add your Charisma modifier to the amount healed.

My point is they shouldn't be allowed to heal like that all. While they were not as GOOD as clerics, they were an effective substitute. In all the 4e groups I played in I saw a Warlord every time, only a few had a cleric at all, and all were pacifist healers except mine.

 

[Satyrn]

My point is they shouldn't be allowed to heal like that all. While they were not as GOOD as clerics, they were an effective substitute. In all the 4e groups I played in I saw a Warlord every time, only a few had a cleric at all, and all were pacifist healers except mine.

No bards, ardents or shamans?

Your table must've really liked what the warlord brought.

 

[smbakeresq]

Nonsense. Druids & Paladins have been healing since 0e, Rangers since 1e, Bards since 2e, they could all use WCL in 3e, and they all heal in 5e.

The Band-Aid Cleric's niche-protection stayed functional right through the TSR era, because the others just couldn't keep up with the healing needs of a party the way a cleric could, particularly at lower levels (only the cleric & paladin could heal at 1st level, and the paladin just a few points, while a cleric with good WIS could cast CLW three times). Since 3.0, the cleric has been marginally better at healing, but there have been many alternatives that could shoulder that burden in its stead, should no one wish to play the Cleric (or, in 3.x, if the Cleric insisted on going all CoDzilla on the campaign).

That's my idea, is that no class should be as good a healer as the cleric options. None, its should be their thing.


Using Mellored and the 4e Warlord quote above, if all those where THP that would be much better IMO. THP are not as good as real healing but are able to be used proactively, which goes more with the Warlord theme of preventing damage by making the party more effective. Just like Inspiring leader feat which I mentioned many times and is a great feat.