D&D 5E Mike Mearls - Reddit AMA

[Yaarel]

The Proficiency Bonus increases aren’t significant changes in the characters’ capabilities. The breaks in the official tiers are the levels where Extra Attacks are gained, casters get access to spells with a big power bump, exp progression slows down to give you more time to enjoy your new features. Proficiency Bonus is a small power increase within the tiers, but the tier breaks are definitely at 5, 11, and 16.


11 has a significantly larger mechanical power gap compared to 10 than 9 does to 8.


Feel is subjective and really has more to do with how your table plays than the design of the level progression curve.


There’s no such thing as levels 21+ in 5th Edition.

Your experience differs. I play full casters mainly, so extra attack isnt a thing. Cantrip damage is meh.

The spells matter. In addition to boosts in the proficiency to set DCs and spell attacks, there are significant spells that jump in power at level 5 (Fireball) and at level 17 (Wish). But the spells at the other levels are a trickle. Each of these levels have good spells and less good spells, with no real jumps in the level. Actually, the spell list for spell level 6, corresponding to level 11, is relatively disappointing. (To be fair, the least impressive spell level is 8.) Level 11 comes and goes like the other levels do.

The boosts in *accuracy* because of the tiers of *proficiency* are noticeable, making most spells at every spell level more potent.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think bonus actions work well, they're elegant, removing them would fundamentally break 5e compatability, but mostly that discussing their removal only gets in the way of REAL issues with this edition.

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[Yaarel]

I'm all for a solution that removes the bonus action.

Move, act, react, is all we need.



(So much simpler to teach and learn!)

Heh, I guess your group doesnt talk or open doors?

Theres also ‘flourish’, or whatever you want to call these kinds of minor actions.

 

[Charlaquin]

Your experience differs. I play full casters mainly, so extra attack isnt a thing. Cantrip damage is meh.

The spells matter. In addition to boosts in the proficiency to set DCs and spell attacks, there are significant spells that jump in power at level 5 (Fireball) and at level 17 (Wish). But the spells at the other levels are a trickle. Each of these levels have good spells and less good spells, with no real jumps in the level. Actually, the spell list for spell level 6, corresponding to level 11, is relatively disappointing. (To be fair, the least impressive spell level is 8.) Level 11 comes and goes like the other levels do.

Levels 5, 11, and 17 are the levels at which a full caster gains the ability to cast 3rd, 6th, and 9th level spells respectively, and while your mileage may vary, those are intend to be major breakpoints in terms of spell power. You yourself call out Fireball and Wish. A few 6th level spells that come to mind as significant are Arcane Gate, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone, True Seeing... They’re also the levels where Cantrip damage improves, and while you might not see that as significant, but it’s no mistake that they happen at the same levels Fighters get Extra Attacks. They’re also the break points in terms of recommend rewards. And as mentioned earlier, the exp to level slows down significantly at each of those levels. Like, YMMV on how significant those milestones feel to you personally, but it’s very clear that those are the intended tier breaks.

 

[Yaarel]

YMMV on how significant those milestones feel to you personally, but it’s very clear that those are the intended tier breaks.

I agree level 11 is the "official" beginning of a tier. However, for casters there is little to substantiate the intention.

Level 9 feels a more significant shift.

In any case, the units of four levels each that correspond to the tiers of proficiency are granualar to demarcate meaningful advancement. (I doubt anyone thinks level 16 is moreorless equivalent to level 11. Nor that level 5 is moreorless equivalent to level 10. More granularity is more useful.) The 4-level proficiency tiers help, and also correspond more closely to traditional play in previous editions.



By contrast, spell level 5 corresponding to the proficiency tier of levels 9-12, has gamechanger spells like Forcecage, plus a decent number of good spells. The tier beginning at level 9 has spell level 5 as a more impressive milestone, relative to nearby levels.

The tiers of proficiency feel more accurate, and anyway are more useful granularly for demarcating advancement mechanically, and correspond better with earlier editions.

A few 6th level spells that come to mind as significant are Arcane Gate, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone, True Seeing... They’re also the levels where Cantrip damage improves, and while you might not see that as significant, but it’s no mistake that they happen at the same levels Fighters get Extra Attacks. They’re also the break points in terms of recommend rewards. And as mentioned earlier, the exp to level slows down significantly at each of those levels.

Re the spells that become available at level 11, in spell level 6.

Arcane Gate is less impressive compared to Misty Step and Dimension Door that become available at much lower levels.

Disintegrate and Flesh to Stone are not bad, but less than good.

True Sight is good, albeit passive.

Also, for healer casters, Heal is effective. And for certain situations, Mass Suggestion can be excellent.

Many spells seem of less worth than their nominal spell level 6 slot.

A caster player who is looking for a "milestone" for level 11, can safely bypass these spells.



Notice, the real gamechanger spells, Fireball at level 5 and Wish at level 17 correspond to the proficiency tiers.

 

[Yaarel]

Rather than designers trying to force level 11 to be great. Better to go with the flow. Revisit spell level 5 and spell level 7, an make sure these spell lists inspire caster players to advance to these levels.

 

[Charlaquin]

I agree level 11 is the "official" beginning of a tier. However, for casters there is little to substantiate the intention.

Level 9 feels a more significant shift.

In any case, the units of four levels each that correspond to the tiers of proficiency are granualar to demarcate meaningful advancement. (I doubt anyone thinks level 16 is moreorless equivalent to level 11. Nor that level 5 is moreorless equivalent to level 10. More granularity is more useful.) The 4-level proficiency tiers help, and also correspond more closely to traditional play in previous editions.

By contrast, spell level 5 corresponding to the proficiency tier of levels 9-12, has gamechanger spells like Forcecage, plus a decent number of good spells. The tier beginning at level 9 has spell level 5 as a more impressive milestone, relative to nearby levels.

The tiers of proficiency feel more accurate, and anyway are more useful granularly for demarcating advancement mechanically, and correspond better with earlier editions.

Re the spells that become available at level 11, in spell level 6.

Arcane Gate is less impressive compared to Misty Step and Dimension Door that become available at much lower levels.

Disintegrate and Flesh to Stone are not bad, but less than good.

True Sight is good, albeit passive.

Also, for healer casters, Heal is effective. And for certain situations, Mass Suggestion can be excellent.

Many spells seem of less worth than their nominal spell level 6 slot.

A caster player who is looking for a "milestone" for level 11, can safely bypass these spells.

Notice, the real gamechanger spells, Fireball at level 5 and Wish at level 17 correspond to the proficiency tiers.

More degrees of granularity in measuring character advancement is absolutely useful, but not all advancement marks a shift in Tier. Even if you don’t feel like 11th level is that big of a deal to full casters (which I still don’t agree with, but like I said, YMMV), , there are other classes to whom it is a huge deal. Fighters suddenly have their DPR increase by 33%. Rogues suddenly can’t fail on any Proficient checks with a DC lower than 15 (or 19 if they have Expertise). Warlocks can suddenly cast 33% more spells between short rests, do 33% more DPR with Eldritch Blast, and they pick up their first Mystic Arcanum. Barbarians suddenly become nearly impossible to drop while raging. So, the Wizard doesn’t feel all that excited about the new spells he picks up. 11th level is still a much bigger turning point for the party as a whole than 9th level is, and DMs ignore that at their peril.

 

[mrpopstar]

Heh, I guess your group doesnt talk or open doors?

We monologue and smash doors, both of which use an action. #adventurelife

 

[Staffan]

It's been a really interesting AMA so far, I'm happy to hear about the progress of the artificer and them mystic though sort of sad to hear that the mystic is facing more significant changes, I was fairly happy with it.

There is a huge elephant, or possibly mekillot, in the room when it comes to the mystic and psionics.

Psionics in D&D is primarily associated with two settings: Dark Sun and Eberron. In Dark Sun it is a defining part of the setting, and in Eberron it's an important thing primarily connected to a PC race and a particular villain faction (which means it's in a place where the DM can make psionics a big part of their campaign, but if they don't like psionics they can pretty much ignore it). But here's where it gets dicey.

Dark Sun is built around the Complete Psionics Handbook for AD&D 2e. These have a fairly flat power level (high-level psionicists primarily get a larger arsenal of powers, but not very many more powerful abilities), and focus pretty heavily on the telepathic, clairsentient, and to some extent psychometabolic parts. Yes, telekinesis exists, but while psionic telekinesis is available at far lower levels than magic TK, it's also far less powerful. And psychoportation is nice and occasionally a bit powerful, but it works better when used in support of other abilities. Psionic combat is a big deal, with special rules for various attack and defense modes (with more detail added in The Will & The Way). Psionics are subtle (no tell-tale signs), but limited (each active power drains psionic energy from the user).

The psionic parts of Eberron, on the other hand, are built around the Expanded Psionics Handbook for D&D 3.5. This book makes a strong attempt at equalizing psionics and arcane magic - a kineticist can throw out some seriously heavy-duty energy damage with unmatched flexibility, metacreation can create astral constructs that are at least on par with the meatbags a druid can bring into play with summon nature's ally, and all psionic disciplines have some way of dealing heavy-duty damage. Psionic combat is de-emphasized, perhaps due to the poor way it worked in the 3.0 psionics rules. Psionics are less subtle with almost all powers having some kind of tell - glowing eyes, ectoplasm, or whatever, but they can be very powerful, particularly at higher levels.

Creating a set of psionic rules that work well for both Dark Sun and Eberron... well, that's not going to be easy.

 

[CapnZapp]

Creating a set of psionic rules that work well for both Dark Sun and Eberron... well, that's not going to be easy.

It is also the only sensible option.

They would be mad to consider two separate psionics systems.

Don't overestimate the connection between world and system. If we can play in the same world using anything from OD&D to 5E, we can learn to play in Dark Sun using a new psionics system.


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