Minion Saves

[Crosswind]

Ever have one of those times, when you have an idea that makes so much sense you think it might already be a rule? I'm having one of those times.

The rule would be this:

Minions succeed on a saving throw only on a natural 20.

...is this a rule? Did I make this up? If I did make this up, is it a bad idea? Basically, this would ensure that you'd have, on average, a minute to sneak past minions you put to sleep, etc, in the event that you didn't want to butcher them all.

If I did just make this rule up, what do folks think of it?

-Cross

 

[DeusExMachina]

AFAIK it's not a rule and it also seems a bit steep. I have no problem with minions having worse saving throws (say 16+), but 20+ seem too steep to me. With combat usually not lasting much more than 10 rounds you might as well not throw them at all anymore, because chances of them making it within the confine sof an encounter are extremely slim...

 

[Wormwood]

I'm toying with the idea of not rolling saves for minions at all.

Once less die roll and all that.

 

[The Black Sword]

Minions

I'm toying with the idea of not rolling saves for minions at all.

Once less die roll and all that.

Ok but then it would be too obvious and the PCs will engage them only with AoE spells.

(my first post lol)

 

[Enoch]

I'm not sure minions will be making saves nearly as often as normal monsters. Most attacks that give a condition also do damage. Blam, gone. I think even sleep does psychic damage.

You would really only see saves from effects that do something on a miss that isn't damage.

In other words, I don't think your rule will break anything, but I also don't think it is very necessary.

-Joshua

 

[DeusExMachina]

Sleep does not do psychic damage...

In fact, after you've bene hit you'd have to fail your save to fall asleep after spending a turn slowed and then fail it to stay asleep...

 

[Crosswind]

Sleep doesn't do psychic damage - it was sort of the reason I thought of this rule. Wormwood's works too.

I just see it as - "If you wanted to, you could have hit all these guys with an AoE and done damage and killed them all. So it doesn't seem as if I should penalize you for putting them into a lesser state."

-Cross

 

[Enoch]

Sleep doesn't do psychic damage - it was sort of the reason I thought of this rule. Wormwood's works too.

I just see it as - "If you wanted to, you could have hit all these guys with an AoE and done damage and killed them all. So it doesn't seem as if I should penalize you for putting them into a lesser state."

-Cross

Yep I forgot about that. Still not enough to convince me that it's necessary though. But as I said before, I don't think it'll break anything and would have no problem with it as a player.

-Joshua

 

[Piratecat]

Ok but then it would be too obvious and the PCs will engage them only with AoE spells.

(my first post lol)

Welcome!

Contrary to 3e, AoE spells in 4e are probably an int attack vs reflex defense (d20 + 1/2 lvl + int bonus, trying to equal or beat the opponent's reflex defense that is 10 + 1/2 lvl + dex bonus.) Saves are a different animal, a simple d20 roll, that only come into play for ongoing effects, like sleep or holds.

I keep messing up the terminology.

 

[Cadfan]

In 3e, when I had fights against lots of weak enemies, I just assumed that a percentage of them made their save. I based the percentage on the likely outcome if I rolled- if they had a 20% chance of succeeding on their save, I assumed that 20% of them succeeded.

But in 4e, the player rolls their own attacks. I don't want to take that away. So for anything except the largest of minion hordes, I'm going to leave things alone.