Miracle and Turning attempts

[Piratecat]

Really? Seems like a rather weak use of 5000xp to me considering that (among other things) a 5000xp Miracle is capable of protecting an entire city from a Volcano.

Getting your Turning Attempts back seems to pale in comparison.

Agreed. Regaining all turning attempts for a 5K xp miracle seems reasonable, and on the weak side for such a power.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Agreed. Regaining all turning attempts for a 5K xp miracle seems reasonable, and on the weak side for such a power.

I will third this notion. My first thought for a proper Miracle (complete with 5k XP expenditure), would be to grant the whole party the benefits of 8 hours rest. This is a spell that lists "raising fallen allies to win a battle" as one of its advanced uses. A free rest-stop for the party doesn't seem out of line to me.

But, you know, YMMV


J from Three Haligonians

 

[JiffyPopTart]

What is the personality of the deity, and for what exactly does the requesting cleric require the turning attempts?

If the deity hates undead and the cleric has been using his Turn Undead usage on metamagicking spells then a nice fat thunderbolt would be in order for wasting the divine gift. Or, to teach him a lesson, grant the Miracle, but each Turn Undead incurs one negative level.

What if he metamagicked a spell or power that killed a powerful undead that otherwise couldn't have been turned? Its kind of assumed by the feat description of the divine feats that the god (or a subfollower of that god) is powering your abilities as you use them. Its not as if your god gets a credit card statement in the mail once a month and says something to the effect of...

"WHAT....You spent 53 turn attempts this month on extending your naked girl silent images! You are SO grounded mister!"

DS

 

[htetickrt]

The problem I have in general with regain-power-type uses of spells like miracle is that they're easily abused. The party cleric has, in theory, up to three uses of miracle a day. If each one is capable of regenerating a substantial piece of the party's complement of abilities, among others things it makes attrition an extremely difficult game to play as a DM.

That said, I don't think turning uses are all that powerful, and 5k XP might be a bit steep. But I think free is too low as well.

As for just allowing the miracle to overcome the situation, given that it is an effectively epic level encounter, I don't feel that this would be appropriate. As I rule I don't like a single lower level spell being able to defeat a higher level challenge unless a great deal of creativity is used. Bypassing it would be something else, and they still have that option.

 

[prospero63]

For 5000XP, sure.

 

[prospero63]

The problem I have in general with regain-power-type uses of spells like miracle is that they're easily abused. The party cleric has, in theory, up to three uses of miracle a day. If each one is capable of regenerating a substantial piece of the party's complement of abilities, among others things it makes attrition an extremely difficult game to play as a DM.

That said, I don't think turning uses are all that powerful, and 5k XP might be a bit steep. But I think free is too low as well.

As for just allowing the miracle to overcome the situation, given that it is an effectively epic level encounter, I don't feel that this would be appropriate. As I rule I don't like a single lower level spell being able to defeat a higher level challenge unless a great deal of creativity is used. Bypassing it would be something else, and they still have that option.

IMO, that's why they are easily abused. 5000XP should be one hell of a price to pay. 15K should, in many cases, effectively wipe out sessions worth of gaming benefits. My last long term character was a cleric that retired at 22nd level I believe, after 3+ years of gaming. That XP cost set me back quite a bit... at least 2 full levels behind the rest of the party... If managed properly, it's it's own abuse prevention mechanism. The RAW stipulate a 5000XP cost for uses outside the defined scenarios. This particular case is well outside those scenarios.