Misuse of the save mechanics in the MM to reintroduce save or die effects

[Dracorat]

Disease saves only happen during rests however, which is why I'm sure the mechanic works as it does. It would slow combat to have it work otherwise.

 

[LostSoul]

Incidentally, the existing mechanics mean that someone a medusa gazes at has to fail two saves to be petrified. That is .45 * .45 or only a 20% chance!

It would almost be a miracle for anyone to get turned to stone during a fight with a medusa!

Cheers

The medusa is going to make a gaze attack more than once during a combat.

 

[Taralan]

The basic idea is that it works the same as death saves - a succesful indicates doesn't imply you recover, it just means it is not getting worse. So you still start off at slowed, and get worse - you just can't shrug the effect off.

I see now. Elegant idea, but it looks very powerful. Since the gaze attack is designed to hit about 75% of the time, with this rule you almost guarantee that everyone would be turned to stone... perhaps with a bonus to the save ?

 

[LostSoul]

Firstly, it makes little sense from a simulationist point of view since it means that a fearsome medusa as less than 25 % chance of petrifying even the lowest peasant (unless he stays near her for constant attack). Clearly not the representation of a fearsome mythological monster.

It's probably more effective for the medusa to just put an arrow through his eye (she's a really good shot, high Heroic-tier ability, "best archer in the land" level skill) but if she wants to she can turn him to stone.

The chance is not 25% because he is not going to be able to get away from her. She will just keep blasting him with her Petrifying Gaze over and over again until he fails.

 

[the Jester]

The other option would be to have it operate on a round by round basis as it does now, with saves allowed to end the effect if the player spends their standard action making an attempt to stave off the effect or if a person makes a successful heal check on them (then allowing another save attempt).

If nothing is done about it, petrification is inevitable.

I like this for some kind of 'greater' medusa or basilisk or something.

 

[Dracorat]

Mebbe I just are evil. Muaa haa haaa!!!

 

[LittleFuzzy]

It would almost be a miracle for anyone to get turned to stone during a fight with a medusa!

Cheers

Hardly. That's a 1-in-5 chance. So if it lands the attack once on each PC in a five-man party. . .

*Yes, I realize the actual odds are still rather less than 100%. Please don't break out the slide-rule*

 

[Felon]

Incidentally, the existing mechanics mean that someone a medusa gazes at has to fail two saves to be petrified. That is .45 * .45 or only a 20% chance!

It would almost be a miracle for anyone to get turned to stone during a fight with a medusa!

Hehe. Of course, this is from a single gaze. The medusa can spam the gaze, whereupon things can get nasty...not to mention tough to keep track of.

 

[Hambot]

At first I liked Plane Sailings hit point based idea, but I just realised that would encourage the 15 minute adventuring day - you would never take on a medusa with less than full hit points if you could possibly help it. If you built up a critical mass of effects like this across different monsters, it would again encourage PC's to do the least number of fights possible per day. You want something equally dangerous no matter what the hitpoint total - that makes it an iconic ability.

I would like to keep the mechanic as is, yet each time you fail a save it is recorded until the end of the encounter, like the death saving throws. Actually, if it is just like a death saving throw, why not use them?

"each time a character fails a save against a medusa's gaze, this counts as a failed death saving throw. If a PC fails 3 death saving throws during an encounter with a medusa, they are petrified instead of being killed. Characters still die normally if their hp are reduced to a negative bloodied value"

That also sorts out the whole village full of peasants thing. The medusa can choose whether she turns the commoners all to stone or hacks them to pieces bit by bit herself. It also implies that people hacked down to 0 can't do much about the medusa glancing over at their corpse during the fight to seal the deal. What do people think?

 

[Regicide]

At first I liked Plane Sailings hit point based idea, but I just realised that would encourage the 15 minute adventuring day - you would never take on a medusa with less than full hit points if you could possibly help it.

4E already encourages the 1-fight-a-day with daily powers, daily magic and action point refreshing. 4E rewards resting, gives next to nothing for fighting on, and losing a fight is penalized.

The ONLY reason to not go into every fight with as many HPs and heailng surges possible is because you're so confidant the next fight will be trivial and so non-threatening that it doesn't matter. In practice it's unlikely anyone will be going into a fight they can prepare for with less than 80% HP as they can just spend a healing surge with a short rest. A mechanic where the gaze does HP damage that will petrify at some threshold could work well.