Monks and Gauntlets

[James Gasik]

Isn't this thread about Pathfinder, or did I misread the OP?

EDIT because if it is Pathfinder, this is what the developers have had to say about it.

Monk Stuff

 

[Sm!le]

My Bad. You are correct it is for Pathfinder. I am in a few games that use D&D3.5e and Pathfinder.
I have found lots of the D&D 3.5e monsters are stronger.(Higher ability scores then in Pathfinder)
Also I like playing epic levels past lvl 20 and up into higher levels. PCs play as Pathfinder characters but can use anything from both systems as long as it can be refrenced.
It may help some other people. they might be using both 3.5 and pathfinder also. Or should I delete it?

 

[James Gasik]

My Bad. You are correct it is for Pathfinder. I am in a few games that use D&D3.5e and Pathfinder.
I have found lots of the D&D 3.5e monsters are stronger.(Higher ability scores then in Pathfinder)
Also I like playing epic levels past lvl 20 and up into higher levels. PCs play as Pathfinder characters but can use anything from both systems as long as it can be refrenced.
It may help some other people. they might be using both 3.5 and pathfinder also. Or should I delete it?

No I think it's fine, I was just confused when I saw all this 3.5 advice. You occasionally get some 3.5 players pop up asking questions, so maybe they'll find your post.

One thing I should note about Pathfinder is, after all the debate about making sure Monks couldn't cheaply enchant gauntlets or brass knuckles to bypass needing a magic amulet ("because it's not thematic for a Monk to use brass knuckles"- guess they never played Final Fantasy games where Monks use knuckles, gauntlets, and claws, lol), they later created magic handwraps that Monks could use to enchant their fists specifically (which annoyed me because the Unchained Monk has moves that specifically use other body parts).

 

[Sm!le]

The gauntlet is being treated as a "weapon", so you can use it, OR you can use your unarmed combat skills.

That's a weird magic item, one that has arcane spell failure. Homebrew, I imagine. Theoretically, spell failure stacks, so the guy would get 20% spell failure.

A monk can use a gauntlet, just takes -4 nonproficiency unless he's proficient, and only does D3 damage, no matter what his unarmed damage is.

So no, they're no good for unarmed combat.

Monks exhibit proficiency with both "Gauntlets" and the "Strike, Unarmed" weapons in Pathfinder, despite the absence of explicit mentions in the weapon proficiency list. To challenge this would imply that monks are not proficient with the "Strike, Unarmed" weapon either because they are also not listed. If one argues that proficiency requires feats such as "Simple Weapon Proficiency (Weapon: Gauntlet)," consistency would demand the addition of a corresponding "Simple Weapon Proficiency (Weapon: Strike, Unarmed)" feat. Failure to acquire such feats would result in a -4 penalty on attack rolls for "Unarmed Strikes." Notably, the "Improved Unarmed Strike (Combat)" feat, while enhancing unarmed strikes, does not confer proficiency with the specific weapon "Strike, Unarmed."

Monks are proficient with the weapons “Gauntlets” and “Strike, Unarmed” even though it doesn’t say they are proficient with ether in the weapon proficiency list. If you do not agree with that then technically, a monk isn’t proficient with “Strike, Unarmed” weapon either. If you say they have to get a feat like “Simple Weapon Proficiency (Gauntlet)” then they would also have to get the feat “Simple Weapon Proficiency (Strike, Unarmed)” or they would be taking –4 penalty on attack rolls even for a “Unarmed Strike.” Because the feat “Improved Unarmed Strike (Combat)” doesn’t also give them proficiency with the weapon “Strike, Unarmed”.

Pathfinder: Core Rulebook: Page 57

Monk “Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient
with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe,
javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear,
short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, and spear.
Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields.
When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a
medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well
as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.”

Pathfinder: Core Rulebook: Page 146
“Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage
rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A
strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed
attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet.
Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with
gauntlets. Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to
disarm you of gauntlets. ”

Pathfinder: Core Rulebook: Page 149
“Strike, Unarmed: A Medium character deals 1d3 points
of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small
character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk
or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat
can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes,
at his discretion. The damage from an unarmed strike is
considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that
give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply
your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier
to attack rolls with an unarmed strike.”

 

[Sm!le]

No I think it's fine, I was just confused when I saw all this 3.5 advice. You occasionally get some 3.5 players pop up asking questions, so maybe they'll find your post.

One thing I should note about Pathfinder is, after all the debate about making sure Monks couldn't cheaply enchant gauntlets or brass knuckles to bypass needing a magic amulet ("because it's not thematic for a Monk to use brass knuckles"- guess they never played Final Fantasy games where Monks use knuckles, gauntlets, and claws, lol), they later created magic handwraps that Monks could use to enchant their fists specifically (which annoyed me because the Unchained Monk has moves that specifically use other body parts).

As long as the handwraps, brass knuckles, gauntlets, and the claws all augment your "Unarmed Strikes". Just speak with your DM and make sure you get all on the same page before you even begin. Otherwise you probably don't want to even play the monk.
For example:
Handwraps: Could be on fire and give the flaming weapon property to your Unarmed Strikes.
Brass Knuckles: Could be made out of Cold Iron or Adamantium. They would bypass that type of DR.
Gauntlets: Could be made out of Cold Iron or Adamantium. They would bypass that type of DR.
Claws: Could just augment your Unarmed Strike by letting you change the damage type to slashing.

 

[Sm!le]

Pathfinder Core Rulebook: Page 142
Monks are Proficient with Unarmed Attacks, but not all Simple Weapons.

 

[Sm!le]

1. Unarmed Attacks: Monks are proficient with unarmed attacks. The fact that "Unarmed Attacks" are listed as a parent category for both Gauntlets and Unarmed Strikes on the weapons table supports the fact that the damage increase from the monk's "Unarmed Damage" will apply to both gauntlets and unarmed strikes. (Pathfinder Core Rulebook: Page 142)

2. Monk's Unarmed Damage:
Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
A monk also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table 3–10. The unarmed damage values listed on Table 3–10 is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage on the table given below.
(Pathfinder Core Rulebook: Page 58)

3. "Amulet of Mighty Fists: This amulet explicitly mentions it grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with "unarmed attacks and natural weapons." Since gauntlets are considered unarmed attacks, Gauntlets would indeed benefit from the enhancement bonus provided by the Amulet of Mighty Fists. (Pathfinder Core Rulebook: Page 496)

In summary, the damage increase provided by the Amulet of Mighty Fists, and the Monk's "Unarmed Damage" does also include the damage from gauntlets, It benefits from the monk's Unarmed Damage as specified in the items descriptions. You can use this information to explain to others that the monk's damage increase is not limited to traditional unarmed strikes only but also extends to all unarmed attacks, including those made with gauntlets, kicks, elbows, knees, and head butts.
(Pathfinder Core Rulebook: Page 182)

 

[Sm!le]

Which makes Unarmed Damage of a Monk the best weapon in the game. With a 2d10 damage each strike.
With the Improved Natural Attack feat (Pathfinder Bestiary: Page 315)
2d10 would increase to 4d8

With Enlarge Person or Righteous Might
4d8 would become 8d6.


You can get the Monk's Robes to get it 5 levels faster.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I say they should help