monks . . . we don't need no stinking monks

[Breakdaddy]

Re: Re: monks

Bullcrap.



Oh. Okay. But it's still bullcrap.



That's a perfectly fine reason not to allow monks, if they don't fit your desired campaign flavour. However, it also has nothing to do with whether or not monks are balanced against the other classes.


Hong "refuses, point blank, to pimp the martial artist" Ooi

I actually disagree with Hung on this one, Monks imho are a bit unbalanced, but since half the players I have come to my game require an initial smackdown for trying to minmax I dont mind. I have to regulate my game, so I dont mind smacking down insolent players trying to get max damage/ac/etc. Everything a PC IMC does requires a valid reason, and they must explain why the PC wishes to do it (as far as acquiring skills/feats/etc.). In the words of Eustas Bagg, "Works for me!"

 

[DDK]

Just think of LOTR: Aragorn never seems to be wearing more than leather, while tramping from one end of Middle-Earth to the other.

In the movie, Aragorn wore chainmail in the battle of Helms Deep.

 

[hong]

Typically, I think of martial artist as the unarmed fighter using a fighting style such as tae kwon do, judo, karate, etc. Basically, I associate it with an Asian setting. In a medieval milieu (European medieval), the only things I can really think of would be boxing or wrestling. And martial artist still wouldn't be the first terminology that comes to mind.

Hmm. Why not have a look at that class which I'm refusing to pimp, and tell me whether that works as an alternative definition that gives the "martial artist" relevance to a broader range of campaign settings. Because I'll be the first to admit that the regular monk is sorta like a fish out of water, having a highly specific niche that doesn't traditionally feature in most stock fantasy settings.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: monks

but since half the players I have come to my game require an initial smackdown for trying to minmax I dont mind. I have to regulate my game, so I dont mind smacking down insolent players trying to get max damage/ac/etc.

I think this says more about your DMing style than it does about your players, really.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

So I disallowed the monk class in my game (broken-long tired story) But Im thinking about allowing martial artists. Has anyone includede a martial artist PC in their game (was it a class or PrC?)
if so how did it go?

Ehh, ignore all of them. If you don't want to allow monks, then don't allow them.

333Dave has the best suggestion I can think of- if you have Spycraft, then they have an extensive unarmed combat feat section. Their new book, the Pan-Asian Collective has a lot more.

You could make all of those fighter feats and that should cover it.

That is what I will most likley do in my upcoming campeign. Monks of the PH variety just don't have a reason to develop on my world, but unarmed fighting styles do have a reason.

SD

 

[Sanackranib]

QUOTE

Monks ... we don't need no stinking monks!

- - -

Now, I KNOW that came from an IRL expression.
It's just I've forgotten the expression.

What was that expression?? (thinks furiously, but cannot remember.)

Its from an old black and white movie the actual quote is "badges . . . we don't need no stinking badges"

there was a spoof that went badgers . . . we non't need no stinking badgers but I don't remember what its called

 

[Sanackranib]

monks

monks have never been popular in any of the games I have been a DM or player in for the last 23 years. the last time I was compelled (yes thats the right word when the DM's "pet" is forced uppon the party) to travel with a monk, he crossed us and our 10th-13th level characters couldnt even effect him with all off the BS benifits the class gets. So while I may seem jaded keep this also in mind, prior to this "joyfull" expirence, I only felt that they were as out of place as a ninja in a sci-fi flick, but I didnt disallow them in my games. but after reading the monk class at the very least should be a PrC. The class IS unbalanced. but like I said I'm not looking for a "debate" on weither monks are broken, the fact is I believe that they are, since I am the DM for my game, that issue is closed for me. I have seen pages of debate for and aginst it, I was simply curious as to weither anyone had used an alturnative in their game.

I should also note that none of my playrs expressed an interest with a monk or martial artist, I am just looking for an unarmed fighter type (movies like Xena have blurred the east/west thing to the extent that I am considering allowing some version of an unarmed fighter type, it just won't be the monk

 

[KnowTheToe]

I feel the same way about the 3E monk as others feel about Psionics. It does not fit into the fantasy world in my head and so I don't play them, or offer them as a class when I DM.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: monks

I think this says more about your DMing style than it does about your players, really.

Maybe Hung, But I will never apologize for encouraging roleplaying. If your players prefer do "dice it out" then thats your game, and thats cool. I dont mind efficient creation of new PCs, quite the opposite. I just think there should be a game related reason why your fighter has certain skill/feat combos. I think it makes for a better game. Just my opinion, and my players have enjoyed the game for years, so its right for us.

 

[Brisk-sg]

Hmm. Why not have a look at that class which I'm refusing to pimp, and tell me whether that works as an alternative definition that gives the "martial artist" relevance to a broader range of campaign settings. Because I'll be the first to admit that the regular monk is sorta like a fish out of water, having a highly specific niche that doesn't traditionally feature in most stock fantasy settings.

I for one can understand why you are refusing to pimp this class. It seems considerably more unbalanced then the Monk class has the potential to be (I actually believe the monk is slightly underpowered in general).

In comparison to the fighter class (Which seems to be the base of the class), the Martial Artist is clearly superior:

Gains..................................................Losses
==============================================
Improved Bonus Feat List.......................1d8 instead of 1d10 HP
Improved Skill List.................................Not Proficient with Armor
4 skill points per Lvl
Two Good Saves
+1 AC bonus per 5 lvls
Defensive Talent
Uncanny Dodge
Stunning Fist

Based on the cost for the gains, I would say this class is unbalanced from a mechanics standpoint.